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8611 front, custom valved bilstein rear SM S14

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  • 8611 front, custom valved bilstein rear SM S14

    So what are the SM guys opinions of using a 8611 front with richards housing, and custom valved if necessary 3000GT bilstein in the rear?

    Koni sports for the rear is tempting, but i dont want a underdamped rear on this car.

    My concerns stem from 2 cars close to me:
    My SM civic on eventually 10 year old koni sports which were maxed out due to spring rates, and if the course was bumpy they couldn't control body motion well at all.

    A friend with e36 M3 just came to SM this year with 275/40/17 hoosiers up from 255/40/17 neovas (in stu last year) and he says his car handles HORRIBLY now.. It was competitive last year on teh same suspension, even at NE divisionals. We ended up stiffening the rebound all around, and going from 550, 650 rear spring rates (those cars have WAY inboard mounted spring so wheel rate is about half of the spring rate in back) trying to better the situation, but not much help. 525s up front btw.
    Last edited by EG8steve; 08-04-2008, 11:47 PM.
    98' 240sx SM project
    93' civic sedan wdcr scca #96 SM
    92' civic Dx gas mileage monster

  • #2
    This is the exact setup I'll be running, those bilsteins have so much travel you'll never use all of it and you can adjust your ride height almost infinitely. Just make sure to use a longer than 7" spring or you'll be riding at the top of the perch

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    • #3
      P.S. - You should have made all your posts into one big poll haha

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      • #4
        I have a set of custom valved bilsteins on my car, and they blow away the Koni Sports that I had before I installed these. I don't miss not being able to adjust them. In fact it's kind of nice to not worry about if my shocks are on the right setting or not, and just drive the car.

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        • #5
          What's your friend running for alignment?

          Also, I drove on 450# springs with Koni Sports in back, 8611's up front. It wasn't that bad. You could just run 8611's up front and 8610's (or 11's I guess) in back, and have a nut welded to the bottom for a heim to run the stock lower mount.

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          • #6
            Good idea on the heim for the rear 8610, i'd consider that. Also the bilstein sounds like a good option too, but since they are so short, how much do they droop? I dont want to be lifting the inside rear!

            Custom valved bilstein would be a bit more costly than the Koni sport off the shelf. I may run the sport in the rear for a year, and if im not happy have them revalved.

            About compression travel w/ the koni sport off the shelf- can they be lowered enough w/o having a lack of compression travel?
            Last edited by EG8steve; 08-04-2008, 11:49 PM. Reason: too long
            98' 240sx SM project
            93' civic sedan wdcr scca #96 SM
            92' civic Dx gas mileage monster

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            • #7
              For alignment on the M3- -3.2 camber front, zero toe, about 5 deg caster i beleive. Rear -2.0 camber with about 1/16 total toe in (.05 degrees per side last time).

              Everyone hates the car's handling. And it was GREAT in STU!

              The differences from last year to this year- we've dialed back the camber in the rear, and used less toe in and more spring rate. We started the season with just the rear alignment changes, then upped rear spring rate. I still think he's just hitting the tire into the rear fender well. But he thinks that he needs MOTONS or ASTs. to keep the body in check . His konis are old, but they were great last year on street tires.
              Last edited by EG8steve; 08-04-2008, 11:53 PM.
              98' 240sx SM project
              93' civic sedan wdcr scca #96 SM
              92' civic Dx gas mileage monster

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              • #8
                98koukile if i put all my posts into one post it would be PAGES Long and nobody would ever read it all=p
                98' 240sx SM project
                93' civic sedan wdcr scca #96 SM
                92' civic Dx gas mileage monster

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                • #9
                  My friend just went to Moton Clubsports on his E36 and they're awesome. Still, his old Konis weren't that bad untill they degassed. I'd bet something is wrong with your friend's M3 if his alignment and spring rates check out, although I doubt it's the dampers unless they blew.

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                  • #10
                    i think its tire contact- my civic used to do that up front and it was HORRIBLE on a bumpy off camber surface
                    He's had all the bushings replaced, balljoints ok, sway bar mounts in tact..
                    It shouldn't be that bad..
                    Last edited by EG8steve; 08-04-2008, 11:55 PM.
                    98' 240sx SM project
                    93' civic sedan wdcr scca #96 SM
                    92' civic Dx gas mileage monster

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                    • #11
                      If you don't mind me asking what was the price of valved bilsteins because I can't see that costing more than valved Konis. Call bilstein and see if you can run them as they are with the spring rates you want. I found them for $183 shipped to my door. If I want to up my rate significantly I'll send them in for, lets call it $150 with shipping and get them exactly to my specs. So thats $333 custom valved. The cheapest I've found Koni yellows shipped is $313
                      Last edited by 98koukile; 07-31-2008, 10:56 AM.

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                      • #12
                        I was reading that revlave/rebuild on Bilsteins is $65 each (plus shipping), and the shocks were $84 each on tire rack. I have not called bilstein to confirm myself though. I found Konis for $125 i think each on tire rack or there abouts (and i thought they'd be more $ than that too). But i think Koni charges almost $200 for revalve, EACH.
                        I looked into revalving my civics old konis, but it was nearly teh cost of new shocks.
                        So just bought new ones for that, and figured i'd sell the old ones.

                        So bilsteins revalve is way cheaper. I woudlnt be surprised though if 3000GT bilsteins were already well suited for S14 in race application since teh 3000GT is MUCH heavier, the compression should be higher than a oe type replacement for the S14, and i know on teh civic the bilstein HDs would handle 400lbs springs no problem. NOthing precise here, but just guessing.

                        Im so tempte to use off teh shelf koni sports in the rear, and 8611s up front, but i dont want to have a less than competitive setup either. I could always revlave the konis if they dont seem to do the job well enough in teh back. But thats money wasted in the end. Or look for a used set of konis and have them revlaved from teh get go.

                        Not sure yet.. whther i'll go w/ bilstein or Konis.
                        98' 240sx SM project
                        93' civic sedan wdcr scca #96 SM
                        92' civic Dx gas mileage monster

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 98koukile View Post
                          If you don't mind me asking what was the price of valved bilsteins
                          http://www.bilstein.com/index1.php

                          Once that page loads, click on "services" on the top menu.

                          Although that page indicates $75 for struts, they only charged me $65 for my fronts.

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                          • #14
                            So we could even get the bilsteins made to be adjustable for a small fee of $45 each.. Bilstein all around is sounding more tempting. The only drawback is GC doesnt make sleeves to fit bilsteins/240s but it just takes a bit of work and machine shop time to work that out.

                            I wonder if Richards housings will fit 3000GT bilstein front inserts?
                            98' 240sx SM project
                            93' civic sedan wdcr scca #96 SM
                            92' civic Dx gas mileage monster

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                            • #15
                              I'm almost positive that the outer shell of the bilsteins is the same size and only the rod is thicker than the koni... this is only from reading ecugrads thread on them tho and I could be completely wrong. Honestly I'd say 8611 fronts with bilstein rears would be completely competitive especially compared to yellow rears

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