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  • megasquirt 3 update

    so i basically missed entire '11 track season when my company moved from northern cali to san diego. but i'm back working hammers and tongs on prepping the car so i don't miss 2 seasons in a row.

    i know u guys hate the ms for some reason, but this still made my day:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugudenlhQCs

    sr20 cas support is in 1.1 codebase (as of this weekend).

  • #2
    Glad to see this. I wonder how popular MS will become with the cheap drift crowd as the support grows and improves. I know it's very popular with 4ag guys.
    My Blog | Unfriendly Garage | Endurance Motorsports

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    • #3
      I don't think I'd use the words MS3 and cheap in the same sentence. Thing is PRICEY!
      '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


      DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
      http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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      • #4
        Well unless we find haltech sponsorship I know of atleast one FD car that will have MS3 this season.

        Still cheaper for the option list than anything comparable.
        I am SKULLWORKS

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        • #5
          if you are BAD at shopping you can get the assembles ms3x and pigtail for $800...that's dirty dirty cheap...I just paid more than that (dealer cost w/hookup to boot) for an AEM EMS 2.....so yeah

          if you can solder then it gets cheaper obviously.
          I am SKULLWORKS

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          • #6
            I have a ms2 with some upgrades and like it so far. Do yourself a favor and buy the long harness and just do it out of the car don't use the Shorty and hit the stock wiring like I did the first time. only trouble is I can't find a place in atlanta that will tune it most places have a sever dislike for them from past experience or aren't familiar with them. I don't want to pay top dollar for a shop to learn on my car. Any advise would be appreciated.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Tower240sx View Post
              if you are BAD at shopping you can get the assembles ms3x and pigtail for $800...that's dirty dirty cheap...I just paid more than that (dealer cost w/hookup to boot) for an AEM EMS 2.....so yeah

              if you can solder then it gets cheaper obviously.
              And you're stuck with a DB37 printer connector that hates vibration at that price. Most MS hardware issues I've seen have been connector related, and they're actually kinda spendthrift in low qty for the nicer stuff.

              Not to mention paying for a decent tubing software (which is still behind AEM's tuber pro).

              I looked into MS3 for my car, but at the price point I just wasn't sold.
              '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


              DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
              http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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              • #8
                IMO, if you aren't fairly adept at tuning, MS is not the right EMS for you...
                '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Def View Post
                  FACT, if you aren't REALLY adept at tuning, MS is not the right EMS for you...
                  Fixed
                  I am SKULLWORKS

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Def View Post
                    And you're stuck with a DB37 printer connector that hates vibration at that price. Most MS hardware issues I've seen have been connector related, and they're actually kinda spendthrift in low qty for the nicer stuff.
                    lol. i knew i could count on def

                    def, the megasquirt is a computer. and the connector is designed to hook computers to peripherals. and all of the peripherals are logic level.

                    except for the injectors. hmm...

                    and you got me on the vibration thing. yeah, thats kinda dumb.

                    Originally posted by Def View Post
                    I don't think I'd use the words MS3 and cheap in the same sentence. Thing is PRICEY!
                    now this i didn't see coming.

                    1 x MegaSquirt-III MS3X Expansion Card (MS3Xpander) = $90.00
                    1 x MegaSquirt-III w/PCB V3.0 - UnAssembled Kit (MS330-K) = $365.00
                    1 x EBC Electronic Boost Control Solenoid Kit (EBC_Sol_kit) = $39.00
                    ------------------------------------------------------
                    Sub-Total: $494.00
                    500 for squirt w/ ebc. wires will be more depending on how you do it. i ended up going baller and buying the wires with the names of each one written on it

                    +1 for the 10% off coupons. is that expensive compared?

                    Originally posted by Def View Post
                    Not to mention paying for a decent tubing software (which is still behind AEM's tuber pro).
                    wait, this is interesting. please educates me. what tubing software we talking about? spark tables i think everybody is same right? (shoot, for my base map i just copied the aem base map). u talking about fuel then? what does aem do? i cant' find any good youtubes of the megasquirt, so i'll just throw up a lame screenshot.

                    you can drive around and it will adjust stuff for you based on your wideband. then you can take logs and analyze later for areas where the wideband doesn't work good enough to update the maps automatically.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tonto View Post
                      lol. i knew i could count on def

                      def, the megasquirt is a computer. and the connector is designed to hook computers to peripherals. and all of the peripherals are logic level.

                      except for the injectors. hmm...

                      and you got me on the vibration thing. yeah, thats kinda dumb.
                      DB37's are found on some industrial machines, but usually not ones that are subject to vibration. They kinda suck on stuff that doesn't vibration too.

                      There's all sorts of stuff that isn't logic level for EMS inputs and outputs, unless I'm not following you on what you're meaning by logic level. Logic level in all software terms usually means it's either a high/low signal. Most signals are analog or PWM/frequency/duty cycle (MAP, CLT, IAT, RPM, crank/cam triggers, EBC etc.) - all that stuff hates noise or intermittent connections.


                      now this i didn't see coming.



                      500 for squirt w/ ebc. wires will be more depending on how you do it. i ended up going baller and buying the wires with the names of each one written on it

                      +1 for the 10% off coupons. is that expensive compared?
                      It's not the most expensive thing on the block, but building a whole EMS yourself vs. buying one off the shelf is hardly apples to apples. It's typically $125-150 to have a place assemble it for you. So $625-650. I know of a handy little AEM EMS box that's around that price... Made more sense to me when I put a $$$ amount on my labor (probably way more than $125-150 putting it together).


                      wait, this is interesting. please educates me. what tubing software we talking about? spark tables i think everybody is same right? (shoot, for my base map i just copied the aem base map). u talking about fuel then? what does aem do? i cant' find any good youtubes of the megasquirt, so i'll just throw up a lame screenshot.

                      you can drive around and it will adjust stuff for you based on your wideband. then you can take logs and analyze later for areas where the wideband doesn't work good enough to update the maps automatically.


                      Tuning - my phone autocorrected me twice to tubing. Lame...

                      There's another version of Tuner Studio MS that costs money right? Or a separate software branch? It's been a few months since I looked at MS, and the general consensus for MS3 was pay your $40 for the "better" software.


                      Then you get into the whole documentation thing, which is way better than it was 5-6 years ago, but still kinda sucks compared to more polished offerings. That's fine, it's a community developed, "grassroots" setup, but why pay polished hardware/documentation prices for it. The forum support is generally good, but that's because it seems like it's needed pretty often for a variety of reasons.


                      The actual tuning part of it doesn't bother me one bit, but the software being easy and having lots of clear options IS a big deal. I personally didn't feel MS was near as polished as AEM's software, and that's the bigget difference between most EMS systems at a similar pricepoint. They're pretty good at checking boxes for hardware capabilities and making sure it's in the ballpark, but good software is not a tick box.

                      I've got some issues with some of AEM's stuff, don't get me wrong, but it seems pretty good from the bit I've messed with it.
                      '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                      DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                      http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                      • #12
                        For sub $1k ECU that isn't application specific, I'd rather run a Haltech Sprint 500 or AEM EMS-4. Both of those have mature software and documentation. If I wanted a science project, I'd run my engine from a Lego Mindstorms NXT.

                        My job is to design and manufacture electronics that, at their core, are pretty similar to what the Squirts do. I'd be willing to bet that they have done zero reliability or environmental testing on these assemblies. Automotive is a harsh place. That printer cable just shows that this is just hobbiest BS. If your hobby is tinkering, then fine. My hobbies are going fast and driving to other hobbies.

                        And electrically, yeah a lot of the outputs are logic-type 0-5V / 0-12V, but those aren't the ones I'm worried about. Your TPS, MAP/MAF sensor, IAT, cam/crank position are all analog or analog like. I like how everyone touts 10-12-16bit ADC resoltution, too. Show me a linearity plot while the ECU is running so I can see how many of those bits are useable.

                        In my mind, MS will never compete with the low-end Haltechs/Electromotive/PFC/AEM's of the world. Technically, could it be done? Sure. Every time Buick releases a new car, journalists make some suggestion that it's a BMW/Merc competitor. It makes for a good headline and Buick owners want to believe this, but everyone on the planet knows that it's not true and never will be.
                        She's built like a Steakhouse, but she handles like a Bistro.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Def View Post
                          It's not the most expensive thing on the block, but building a whole EMS yourself vs. buying one off the shelf is hardly apples to apples. It's typically $125-150 to have a place assemble it for you. So $625-650. I know of a handy little AEM EMS box that's around that price... Made more sense to me when I put a $$$ amount on my labor (probably way more than $125-150 putting it together).
                          def, any real feature-set differences between a ms3+ms3x vs the ems4 aem box? i was looking around but didn't find any good writeups.

                          As far as the ms3 goes, vibration and environment have been mentioned couple of times, and you also mention sync here: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...6&postcount=63

                          both of these scare the hell out of me. I got some cheap miata parts because a turbo miata lost its CAS down a straight at buttonwillow. I was told the datalog showed that ecu thought motor was spinning at 900 rpm and pulled fuel. 300ms and it was all over. car got parted.

                          ouch. just ouch.


                          edit: i don't know what ecu was on the miata, however the sensor was the culprit so doesn't matter anyway.
                          Last edited by tonto; 02-21-2012, 01:38 PM.

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                          • #14
                            throwing another one out there for y'all. I have a AIM XML strada dash and its working with ms.

                            http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...?f=131&t=42807

                            only buying sensors for the ecu brings the price (and annoyance of the dups) on the strada down. i haz high hopes for this track season. i should go update my intro thread lol.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tonto View Post
                              def, any real feature-set differences between a ms3+ms3x vs the ems4 aem box? i was looking around but didn't find any good writeups.

                              As far as the ms3 goes, vibration and environment have been mentioned couple of times, and you also mention sync here: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...6&postcount=63

                              both of these scare the hell out of me. I got some cheap miata parts because a turbo miata lost its CAS down a straight at buttonwillow. I was told the datalog showed that ecu thought motor was spinning at 900 rpm and pulled fuel. 300ms and it was all over. car got parted.

                              ouch. just ouch.


                              edit: i don't know what ecu was on the miata, however the sensor was the culprit so doesn't matter anyway.
                              The sync issue with Gen 2 AEM stuff (and possibly Gen 1) seems to be people having a wonky crank/cam trigger setup and setting the SyncMx Error (or whatever it's called) value up really high so that the car will "run" fine with lots of sync errors. Until you drop just the right sequence of events to where the EMS gets all sorts of confused and BOOM goes the motor. The problem seems to be operator induced here (as are most tuning issues).


                              As far as features, the big one is the EMS-4 only has 4 fuel/ign outputs whereas the MS3 + MS3X has 8 fuel/ign logic level outputs.

                              As far as GPIO stuff, they're different, but there's not a clear winner. The MS3 with MS3X probably has a slight edge, but the EMS-4 has 8 GPIOs (4 medium current, 4 PWM). Not a ton of IO stuff, but I think it'll work for my usage, and I don't have to assemble it and buy a Stim which adds to the cost...
                              '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                              DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                              http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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