Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Oil Pressure Relief Valve Failure...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Oil Pressure Relief Valve Failure...

    At the last race, my KA24DE spun the #3 rod bearing on practice day only after running for about 2 hours. Maybe it was just time (engine had 65ish hours of racing at that point)....or maybe not. This motor has always felt particularly good with the exception that there were signs of decent oil consumption after the prior enduro in October. But, after a very positive comp and leakdown test it probably just consuming oil through the PCV system.

    There were two related things that I changed for this race from the last. First was I went from 50wt redline to 40wt to compensate a bit for the cooler weather and possibly free up a pony or two. Second, was that I modified an OEM oil pan for more capacity (6-1/4 qt) and trapper doors to prevent exactly this failure from happening since Watkins Glen is a fast track with a lots of grip:





    When disassembling the motor that same day of the failure to swap components to our Craigslist replacement engine to get racing again, I noticed this (see cracks and sticking out more than normal):






    Now, there's nothing in the FSM that shows what the differential pressure rating of this valve should be to open and bypass the oil filter. It just says to inspect it for cracks, movement, etc..:


    Well, it is very easy to push this particular one open with your finger. Didn't get a chance to test the one on our replacement. Not sure what it should 'feel' like. The area of it is very small, so maybe it requires higher pressure than one would think.

    Furthermore, here's the oiling circuit of the KA:


    What am I getting at? Not sure. Perhaps the combination of this relief valve not working very well in conjunction to the newly fabricated oil pan with extra debris that I just couldn't remove caused the failure. I thought I cleaned the pan extremely well, but that being part of the cause is just conjecture. One thing is for certain though, if that relief valve is allowing oil to bypass the filter all the time, that can't be good for bearing life. I have no idea how long it looked that for. Note to selves, check this thing. You can see that my motor was running contaminated oil:

    crank main girdle/caps:



    mains block side:


    crank:



    #3



    Piston #1 bearing:




    So, has anyone experienced failure with this piece? I'm thinking of just pulling it out and plugging it completely. Don't most oil filters have built in bypass/relief valves to begin with? The more moving parts I can do away with, the better.
    Last edited by gills; 05-12-2016, 07:53 AM.
    Core4 Motorsports
    CLICK HERE for Wilwood FSL6R Radial Bracket & Rear Wilwood BBK GROUP BUY
    S14 VQ AER Endurance Racing Team

  • #2
    I believe most filters do, but you'll want to verify. The filter bypasses the filter but doesn't regulate oil pressure. I'm not seeing the diagram well, but the regulator bypasses oil back to the sump to control oil pressure and the filter bypass bypasses the filter to prevent high filter differential from causing low oil pressure to the motor.
    Long time ago, wife had a Buick with the 231 V6. I didn't have access to my tools so we made our first ever trip to one of those "quick change" places for an oil change. After paying up, we headed down the road and made it about 2 blocks before the oil light came on and we coasted into a Kmart parking lot. I sent wife in to buy a crescent wrench and a drain pan. I drained it right there and pulled the filter, only to find a grain of kitty litter stuck in the relief. I popped it out, replaced the filter, put the oil back in and drove away. It was many years before I used an oil change service again. If you had something get wedged in with the check-ball it would have the same effect.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Don Johnson (really!)
    Just so you know.

    Comment


    • #3
      It's really hard to see the diagram you posted (make it twice as big!), but it seems that pressure relief does just bypass the filter. The regulator valve on these engines is on the oil pump itself, right by the pump gear. It dumps excess oil right back into the sump there.


      Honestly, for our usage, how often are you going to actually run an oil filter long enough to plug it up? I'd have a really hard time seeing that personally. So even plugging that relief valve on the block up, and then running a filter without a relief valve is pretty low risk IMO. But I'd probably try to source filters with a valve just in case.
      '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


      DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
      http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

      Comment


      • #4
        BTW - I wouldn't think it'd be hard to move that relief valve - it's supposed to bypass around the filter when it gets dirty - so you're talking a few psi? On a ~3/8" area, that's only 0.11 sq in. So if it's bypassing at 5 psi, that's only 0.55 lbf, at 10 psi you're looking at 1.1 lbf etc.
        '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


        DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
        http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

        Comment


        • #5
          I updated the oiling circuit diagram so it can actually be read. So yes, the only purpose of that valve is to bypass the oil filter. As you said, Def, I have a hard time seeing how plugging that would be any worse than having it there even on a filter without a internal bypass. I'm constantly checking and changing oil, there's no way I'd completely clog a filter unless something catastrophic already happened. I already run a huge non-OEM filter to gain some capacity and have been since we started racing with the engine in 2013 (http://www.amazon.com/Purolator-L300.../dp/B000C6MMHQ) and just a quick google shows that it has an internal BPV rated at 8-16psi (http://oilfilterdata.com/index.php?v...o&model=L30001)

          I just need to find a way to plug it now...
          Core4 Motorsports
          CLICK HERE for Wilwood FSL6R Radial Bracket & Rear Wilwood BBK GROUP BUY
          S14 VQ AER Endurance Racing Team

          Comment


          • #6
            On all my KA engines in my track only car, I tap and plug the pressure relief valve hole on the block and also run a filter w/o a pressure relief valve. This way all the oil is forced through the filter and the bearings only get clean oil. This can only be done on a track only car because starting the engine in below freezing temperature will cause a high differential pressure and could tear the filter media.

            If you still want to run a pressure relief valve, it's best to still plug the hole on the block and get a filter with a pressure relief valve. At least this way you get a new valve every time you get a new oil filter.
            NASA Time Trials TT3


            BTW I work for Garrett

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm betting something like a 1/4" NPT plug would fit well from looking at the other parts around it. Maybe 3/8" NPT, but that's getting pretty large.
              '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


              DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
              http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by 240sxTTC View Post
                On all my KA engines in my track only car, I tap and plug the pressure relief valve hole on the block and also run a filter w/o a pressure relief valve. This way all the oil is forced through the filter and the bearings only get clean oil. This can only be done on a track only car because starting the engine in below freezing temperature will cause a high differential pressure and could tear the filter media.

                If you still want to run a pressure relief valve, it's best to still plug the hole on the block and get a filter with a pressure relief valve. At least this way you get a new valve every time you get a new oil filter.
                Just the guy I was waiting for to reply. Excellent to know. What filter do you run?
                Core4 Motorsports
                CLICK HERE for Wilwood FSL6R Radial Bracket & Rear Wilwood BBK GROUP BUY
                S14 VQ AER Endurance Racing Team

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have remote oil filter mount Canton 22-620 and use oil filter M1-206 (13/16-16). I like the Mobil 1 oil filter because the media isn't super restrictive and it has a silicone anti-drainback valve.
                  Last edited by 240sxTTC; 05-12-2016, 01:27 PM.
                  NASA Time Trials TT3


                  BTW I work for Garrett

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 240sxTTC View Post
                    I have a remote oil filter mount and I'm pretty sure it has different threads than the Nissan. I'll have to look.
                    Cool, thanks. OEM Nissan is 3/4-16.
                    Core4 Motorsports
                    CLICK HERE for Wilwood FSL6R Radial Bracket & Rear Wilwood BBK GROUP BUY
                    S14 VQ AER Endurance Racing Team

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sorry, you must have been replying at the same time I was changing my post.
                      I like the 13/16-16 threads better because the ID is a little larger than the 3/4-16 so more flow.
                      NASA Time Trials TT3


                      BTW I work for Garrett

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 240sxTTC View Post
                        Sorry, you must have been replying at the same time I was changing my post.
                        I like the 13/16-16 threads better because the ID is a little larger than the 3/4-16 so more flow.
                        Yea, noticed that. Thanks for sharing.

                        So yea, no surprise here, but OEM KA oil filters don't have a relief bypass valves FWIW.
                        Core4 Motorsports
                        CLICK HERE for Wilwood FSL6R Radial Bracket & Rear Wilwood BBK GROUP BUY
                        S14 VQ AER Endurance Racing Team

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X