Cheap swaybar mod- endlink re-location

[EG8steve]

There's a trick BMW did on the E36 M3 vs 325- the M3 actually had a smaller diameter front sway bar vs a 325, but was effectively stiffer b/c the endlinks connected to the strut instead of the LCA as on teh 325. Since the strut is further outboard than the LCA swaybar mounting hole, the bar gets more leverage on the suspension and has more effect.

A friend of mine has a 325 and used his oem front sway bar with a M3 style endlink/strut mounted to have a bar stiffer than the M3. It works well.

I want to see if something like this is possible with the 240s. Make a bracket off of the strut's lower mounting bolts to attach a sway bar link.

The factory sway bar could possibly also have an additional hole drilled to stiffen it further.

Im going to look into this with my car and i'll post what i find.

[AceInHole]

I've thought about it, but couldn't determine what effects steering would have on things, since whatever bracket you use will end up rotating with the strut. It's possible that you can do it affectively, but I just haven't looked at it enough yet.

For now, I've simply located the swaybar mounts slightly more outboard than stock. I can basically rotate an offset mount to go slightly softer or stiffer.

[Def]

For M3s they just have two balljoints on either end of the link and it seems to work fine. It's been a while since I've specifically looked at it on my car, but I think it's offset to the front so that when you turn it's more of a translation rather than pure rotation.

That said, the S13 swaybars are pretty far off from the strut, like about double as far away as an E36 M3. Not sure if you could get a linkage to work without excessive binding due to the horizontal distance.

I've thought of it, but the distance it had to translate made me scrap the idea. The long a bracket you make and the more it makes the linkage move, so that doesn't really help the problem.

[EG8steve]

gota get outside and really look at this before i go on.

[EG8steve]

PJ- so you say you made your swaybar mounts a little more outboard. Meaning you slotted or made new mounting holes in the lower control arm? Interesting, post pics if you have any- i'll document what i find with the strut mounting swaybar link.

[EG8steve]

Got outside to check the car today. This endlink relocation idea is not so simple, probably wont work. The sway bar is FAR too inboard relative to the location of the strut. A mounting system how i was thinking wuld make the endlinks FAR from vertical. A more complex bracket could possibly be made off of the 2 large lower strut bolts, but it would be difficult to make a rigid bracket that goes so far from its mounting point. I suppose a bracket could be made and welded to the lower strut in a more favorable location, but this type of location would likely twist the bar too much on steering.


For the time being i think im going to re-drill my OE sway bar, and bend the endlinks so they wont be in a constant bind.

[AceInHole]

PJ- so you say you made your swaybar mounts a little more outboard. Meaning you slotted or made new mounting holes in the lower control arm? Interesting, post pics if you have any- i'll document what i find with the strut mounting swaybar link.

The whiteline bracket holes are offset of center to begin with, so it was just a matter of rotating the bracket to a position that placed the heim center furthest outboard on the LCA. Unfortunately, if I go too far outboard on the LCA, the extension from the sway bar will put the "arm" in torsion, and may result in a softer bar.

It's not a huge concern for me, though, as I believe I have enough stiffness up front with my current spring rates for high grip surfaces, with the option to go slightly softer on low- grip ones just by placing the heim on the more in-board LCA side mount.

[Def]

Got outside to check the car today. This endlink relocation idea is not so simple, probably wont work. The sway bar is FAR too inboard relative to the location of the strut. A mounting system how i was thinking wuld make the endlinks FAR from vertical. A more complex bracket could possibly be made off of the 2 large lower strut bolts, but it would be difficult to make a rigid bracket that goes so far from its mounting point. I suppose a bracket could be made and welded to the lower strut in a more favorable location, but this type of location would likely twist the bar too much on steering.


For the time being i think im going to re-drill my OE sway bar, and bend the endlinks so they wont be in a constant bind.

Where are you drilling the OE sway? I was looking at mine and there seems to be a slightly curved section about 1/2"+ inboard of the stock holes that you could use. Seems like it'd probably bump the rate up about 10-15% if both links were moved slightly down on the bar. Not sure if it'd be that noticeable, but I figure it'd be cheap to break out the drill and see how it feels.

[racepar1]

I tried to re-drill my stock sway to make it stiffer and I can say that it is almost impossible to drill through. I even tried it with my cobalt drill bits, but I stopped because I was starting to get worried about burning the bits.

[EG8steve]

Re-drilled my OEM 27mm front bar yesterday. It just takes good sharp bits, plenty of cutting oil (if you see smoke while drilling, stop and spray more oil on the bit/bar before you bits get dulled), dont spin the drill too fast, and stepping up in size gradually from 1/16 to 3/8". I didnt have a good center punch, so i etched my center point, then used a very tiny drill bit to start the hole, enlarged the hole in steps of 1/16" - althogh my 5/16, and 1/4 bits were dulled, so i jumped from 3/16 to 3/8s and i just had to be careful w/ the bit/oil/smoke. The link requires SLIGHTLY larger than 3/8s (its a 10mm hole) I just used a 3/8ths bit and a round file at the end to open the hole slightly more. Found the stock bar to be hollow too, which surprised me.

Its tough to move the link very far for 2 reasons. 1. the bar doesnt have a whole lot of room to move the link (since you can only use the flattened section), and 2. the OE links will bend/not be straight when mounted if the mounting position on the bar is too far from stock location. If somebody has access to a hydraulic press, you should be able to flatten MORE of the bar to allow the additional hole to be drilled a bit farther from the normal location- not too far though due to the curve of the bar. If using spherical bearing style endlinks- this wont be as much of a problem.

I drilled my new holes 5/16 of an inch from the outer edge of the original hole. This means there's about 1/8" of bar b/w the two holes once finished. I also used 10mm (I.D.) lockwashers on the nut side of the link, under the oe flanged nut, since the OE flanged nut had too large of a footprint to fit flat on the bar- the lockwashers fit nice and flat on the bar and allow the oem flanged nut to fully engage threads.

I'm sure this isnt going to make a huge difference, but anything will be helpful, and the OEM links do still mount up OK this way- although they're a little tweaked. THey were a little tweaked with oe mounting locations with the car lowered anyway, but in the opposite direction.

Im going to autocross the car again this weekend. The slightly stiffer front bar should help with rear traction- anything will be good in that department as the car was SUPER tail happy last weekend with BMWCCA. After last weekends runs, I was very sure that the car just needed softer rear spring rates (currently 440lb/in rear with 480lb/in front) or stiffer fronts, but im stuck w/ my front suspension right now, and after seeing photos of the car during last weekends autox, i have to say the relatively soft front may be more to blame for lack of rear grip than the rear. Lots of body roll up front- lets the inside rear get light=no traction in the back.

Also on a side note- Progress makes a 30mm adjustable front bar for the S14 that supposedly comes with spherical bearing style (rod end) adjustable length endlinks. I dont know if they provide a bracket to mount the spherical style endlink to teh LCA, but that wont be hard to make if they dont provide it.

I wonder if its hollow and similar wall thickness as the OE bar? Anyone used one?

[racepar1]

The progress bars are by far the best ones on the market right now. There is actually a thread here about sway bars and somebody who had 3 different bars right in front of him outlines why. They are 100% bolt-in with the endlinks and endlink brackets as I understand. The only problem is that they are frequently backordered. Peak performance is developing sway bars for s-chasis cars as well and I am eager to see what they look like. I am actually talking with them about testing a set at my next event.

[highoctane]

I've picked up a front progress bar about month ago for my s14. It's solid and weight difference between the stock front vs. the progress front are very noticeable, but I did not get to weight the progress to see how much more. Everything bolts up nicely, it come with end links, bar bushings/bracket and all hardwares to bolt it up.

[EG8steve]

pics of the S14 27mm OEM front bar re-drilled and mounted, at normal ride height (not jacked up).




I was only able to get through 1 and part of a 2nd run at last weekends DC region SCCA solo. During my 2nd run my wastegate dumptube bolts broke off and the tube fell off the car, ending my day. DUring this little bit of time and on the road, the front end did feel more flat (less bodyroll) although i didnt really get enough autox seat time to say much more- whether the bar settled the rear noticeably or not. I dont expect much from this, but it might be worth while if somebody feels their front bar is ALMOST right, and is doing more tuning w/ spring rates.

[EG8steve]

Progress bar sounds like its solid, unlike the hollow factory bar, if its significantly heavier.

I am considering it, but im taking a very minimal approach with my S14. I might wait until i have the 8611s in the front and stiffer spring rates that i'll use with them before i replace the front bar.

With that said- the front bar is generally CRITICAL to make a tail happy rear driver work- so i'll likely replace the front bar- im just going to wait to be sure i need to.

anyone have installed pics of the progress bar? I'd like to check out the endlink/bracket layout.

[McCoy]

I thought I had a better picture of my progress setup, but this is all I could find.