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  • School me on fuel

    I'm getting my new engine together and have a used Circuit Sports top mount fuel rail and injector dynamics ID1000s. The problem is the person didn't send me the converters to the 14mm ID1000s to the intake manifold. I can buy radium engineering ones. That should cover that.

    Other than that, I have to figure out how to do the fuel lines/regulator etc. I still have the stock lines but it looks like I have to do AN from the fuel rail. Any suggestions from the pros? What fuel regulators did you guys use and how did you make your lines or where did you get them from?

    Thanks
    Chicago Region SCCA SM # 688 http://www.scca-chicago.com
    TSSCC SM # 688 http://www.tsscc.org

  • #2
    I'm gonna be using an Aeromotive A1000: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-13109/overview/

    Basically, what I'm planning is to run a -6 feed line from the tank so I can swing 500whp on E85 down the road potentially. Stock feed hard line is fine for most setups though. It's 5/16" so you can flare it using a -5 AN tube nut/sleeve, then run a -6 AN to -5 AN adapter, and a -6 AN line to an inline fuel filter and then another to an adapter on the rail. I'd get premade PTFE lines in the proper length to avoid having to put together PTFE line myself, since its a PITA and I don't want fuel leaks. Regular synthetic rubber hose will weep fuel vapors. Then run another -6 AN line from the other side of the rail to the FPR, and a final line from the return port on the FPR to the stock return. Could flare this also with a tube nut/sleeve so everything is secure, leak-free, and easy to disconnect if needed. The alternative would be to keep the stock 5/16" hose and obtain adapter fittings for the rail and FPR, but I hate dealing with hose barbs and -6 AN lines are a little bigger for less pressure drop.

    This shows how it all works, but is specific to some other vehicle so ignore the fitting angles etc.
    ~1992 240SX, SR20/Koni track day car
    ~2016 M3, daily driver

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    • #3
      I pieced together something. I found most of my info from here. http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=40354 It's a pretty good write up.

      I don't have time to cut the stock lines and convert them to AN so I'm going -6AN from the regulator to the rail and from the filter to the rail. The filter side will probably have to be clamped for now. I need to get this thing rolling and costs are piling up way too quickly.
      Chicago Region SCCA SM # 688 http://www.scca-chicago.com
      TSSCC SM # 688 http://www.tsscc.org

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      • #4
        I hear you, just when I started making progress we bought a house so I'll be packing up mid project.
        ~1992 240SX, SR20/Koni track day car
        ~2016 M3, daily driver

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        • #5
          Thanks for the reply by the way. That pic helps a ton.
          Chicago Region SCCA SM # 688 http://www.scca-chicago.com
          TSSCC SM # 688 http://www.tsscc.org

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          • #6
            How Turtl631 described is exactly how I have my fuel lines setup, minus the full -6 line to the tank. I cut the stock hardlines before the firewall and had them flared to use with the -5an nut/sleeve, then used a -5 to -6 adapter and have a -6 braided lines to the filter, rail, and fpr.

            Be careful, Earl's sells a hardline to -6an tube fitting adapter that looks like it would work perfectly, however it's only rated to 50 psi max.

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            • #7
              another option is if you want to go returnless. you could buy a ls1 fuel filter/regulator and the fittings for the bottom lines of the filter to hook up to your stock lines and then get an adapter for the outlet of this filter and have just one 6an hose to the fuel rail and plug the other side of the fuel rail.

              ls1 fuel filter/regulator


              quick disconnect to hose barb that you would hook up to the bottom lines of the filter


              6an fitting for the top of thefilter

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              • #8
                heres a pic of how its hooked up that i found on google

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                • #9
                  also i am pretty confident you are going to go the other route that turtl631 described. just to let you know the fuel lab fpr i have used and never had a problem with them.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by clotuning View Post
                    another option is if you want to go returnless. you could buy a ls1 fuel filter/regulator and the fittings for the bottom lines of the filter to hook up to your stock lines and then get an adapter for the outlet of this filter and have just one 6an hose to the fuel rail and plug the other side of the fuel rail.

                    ls1 fuel filter/regulator


                    quick disconnect to hose barb that you would hook up to the bottom lines of the filter


                    6an fitting for the top of thefilter


                    Not an option at all for a boosted car, unless you want melted pistons

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                    • #11
                      Not necessarily true and not necessarily wrong.

                      Both NA and boosted need manifold vacuum/boost reference. Remember, injectors are flowing based on pressure differential. If it's spraying against wide open throttle on a NA motor into a manifold at 0psi, then the differential is fuel pressure. If you're part throttle, and there's 4 psi of vacuum, then the fuel pressure is actually pump pressure + 4 psi, so inherently you're flowing more for the same injector time.

                      Vacuum reference fuel pressure makes engine programming significantly easier. Modern cars rely on a manifold pressure sensor and then compensation for said vacuum. 100% doable and most EFI systems support it. But you need solid injector, mad or ve, and correction for MAP data else garbage in equals garbage out.

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                      • #12
                        My fuel set up:

                        Aeromotive in tank 340 pump
                        Stock hardliners to the firewall
                        Flared the hard lines with the $30 summit tool and used tube sleeves and tube nuts
                        Circuit Sport fuel rail, ID1000s, and AEM FPR with vacuum line to intake manifold.

                        Inlet from firewall to back of fuel rail, front of fuel rail to FPR, FPR bottom back to firewall.

                        Made over 500 WHP. Put a relay to the pump using the oem trigger wire from the key. Helps with consistent fuel pressure.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hardrvin View Post
                          Not necessarily true and not necessarily wrong.

                          Both NA and boosted need manifold vacuum/boost reference. Remember, injectors are flowing based on pressure differential. If it's spraying against wide open throttle on a NA motor into a manifold at 0psi, then the differential is fuel pressure. If you're part throttle, and there's 4 psi of vacuum, then the fuel pressure is actually pump pressure + 4 psi, so inherently you're flowing more for the same injector time.

                          Vacuum reference fuel pressure makes engine programming significantly easier. Modern cars rely on a manifold pressure sensor and then compensation for said vacuum. 100% doable and most EFI systems support it. But you need solid injector, mad or ve, and correction for MAP data else garbage in equals garbage out.


                          You sound like you're trying way too hard to sound like you know what you're talking about.

                          It's quite obvious with certain NA setups no vacuum reference is needed.

                          As I stated, with a boosted setup this is a no go.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Z28ricer View Post
                            You sound like you're trying way too hard to sound like you know what you're talking about.

                            It's quite obvious with certain NA setups no vacuum reference is needed.

                            As I stated, with a boosted setup this is a no go.
                            Boosted can be returnless as well. I've tuned LS motors running the OE returnless setup below on boosted setups for that matter.

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                            • #15
                              Yes, on an LS1 that has a 58psi base, and with much larger injectors you can band-aid to avoid a proper boost referenced fuel system, ever taken a look at what's already required for injectors on an SR or KA that virtually anyone on this board is going to have boost on ?

                              Let's be realistic, for what's being discussed here, the return less setup is a nono

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