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S14 Power Steering Cooler Question for HPDE

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  • S14 Power Steering Cooler Question for HPDE

    I've been searching the forum and found a few threads where people added PS coolers with good results. The OEM line next to the radiator cracked, so I removed it and swapped in a SS line from Enjuku.

    Please let me know your thoughts on this cooler for a HPDE: Hayden Cooler Link

    I'll be running all day at Sebring in a month and don't want to run into the same issue I had at Mid-Ohio...melting the O-ring on the SS PS pump line at the PS rack connection.

    I was thinking of mounting it in front of the radiator or somewhere in the engine compartment near the frame rail.

    Here's a pick of front bumper:




    Thank you.
    '97 240SX - S13 SR20DET​​​​​
    '19 Camaro ZL1 1LE
    '19 Expedition Max
    Previous HPDE Cars: '17 Civic Type R, '02 Golf GTI, '99 Integra GS-R, '97 200SX SE-R, '96 240SX, '92 240SX

  • #2
    This cooler seems similar but 2x the passes and likely more easily/quickly attained:
    http://forums.nicoclub.com/diy-how-t...0-t477542.html

    I'm not a big fan of attaching coolers like that as I like a more sturdy, nut and bolted bracket and not against another cooler where it could wear holes in one or both. But this seems like a quick and inexpensive way to do it.

    I found a setrab cooler for $40 locally and bought the hose and fittings from a local hose/race shop. Probably $100 total and more work making the mounts.

    Comment


    • #3
      I ran a small cooler like the Hayden you posted, and I completely lost power steering within 2 laps on the track. don't know what happened, but I gave up on power steering and drained the fluid from the rack and finished the track day without power steering. that was 5 yrs ago and I'm still running it that way.

      As for power steering coolers, I tracked my car for ~5 years and never had a problem with the OEM system other than the normal Nissan sweating hoses and burping PS reservoir.
      Put the stock crap on and run it!
      Originally posted by SoSideways
      I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
      '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
      '96 240SX- The Track Toy

      Comment


      • #4
        I have a small Setrab oil cooler that I mounted between my radiator and FMIC. There was a metal thing sticking out with holes on the lower radiator support bracket that came on the s13 stock, so I just bolted it to that.

        I got the cooler used (looked almost new) on ebay from some nascar team. I wouldn't recommend using used coolers for engine lubrication, due to there being gunk and metal in the cooler, but it has been fine for my power steering system.

        Comment


        • #5
          You can just run an aluminum tube up to free air and back. Plenty of cooling.
          '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


          DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
          http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

          Comment


          • #6
            Has anyone put a temp gauge on it or at least taken usable before/after temp readings? Anything less is just conjecture.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jfryjfry View Post
              Has anyone put a temp gauge on it or at least taken usable before/after temp readings? Anything less is just conjecture.
              Conjecture = years of tracking a car on DOT-Rs with stock PS system?

              Sorry, I'm not going to devise science experiments and post a thesis on every little aspect of a car build just to appease the internet quarterbacks.
              Originally posted by SoSideways
              I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
              '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
              '96 240SX- The Track Toy

              Comment


              • #8
                It's obvious the stock PS system runs a little hot on track, with its cooling loop behind behind the sump of the engine and all.

                If you get rid of most of the negative symptoms like PS fluid boiling etc., then I'd say that's "good enough." We're not running an F1 car here.

                Plus the only real heat going into the system is radiated/convected heat the PS system picks up from other components (like the exhaust manifold, turbo etc.), and the small amount of pump power the PS pump uses. Not like we're trying to cool a 30 HP load here, probably more like a 3-5 HP load.
                '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

                Comment


                • #9
                  who took the jewel out of your doughnut??

                  Perhaps im in the minority , but taking before and after temps with a thermometer hardly constitutes a scientific experiment.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I appreciate the feedback. It looks like the small Hayden may not be the best choice.

                    It is noteworthy to mention that I put PS fluid in the system at Mid-Ohio rather than ATF when I was melting the O-Rings. I've been out of HPDE's for so long that it didn't even occur to me to double check the FSM...I don't recall if I was using ATF or regular PS fluid in the OEM setup at Sebring...regardless, the pump seems more quiet. Lesson learned! LOL

                    I'm running NAPA DEX/MERC in the system now with around 1000 miles on the street, but I'm still nervous about Sebring, which is why I'm posting. The Chin entry fee is insane (but they do run safe events) and Sebring is a lot more enjoyable with PS, so I'm trying to avoid removing the belt.

                    A few questions:

                    1. Jfryjfry and Vlad - What model Setrab does it look like you are running?

                    2. Matt - Did you go with new OEM Nissan, boneyard or aftermarket brand OEM design for your PS setup? I was only able to get 4 laps at Sebring before my original OEM Nissan cracked. The crack was right near the vertical section of tubing by the radiator.

                    3. Def - Where is a good place to mount the tube for proper cooling?

                    4. Everyone - Would there be a noticeable impact on the PS line temperature if I put the turbo manifold shield back on?

                    Thank you.
                    '97 240SX - S13 SR20DET​​​​​
                    '19 Camaro ZL1 1LE
                    '19 Expedition Max
                    Previous HPDE Cars: '17 Civic Type R, '02 Golf GTI, '99 Integra GS-R, '97 200SX SE-R, '96 240SX, '92 240SX

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jfryjfry View Post
                      who took the jewel out of your doughnut??

                      Perhaps im in the minority , but taking before and after temps with a thermometer hardly constitutes a scientific experiment.
                      how are you going to take before/after temps with a thermometer without splicing into the lines and running two temp gauges, and having someone monitor them on track- in corners and on the straights?

                      These types of measurements taken in your driveway while the car is parked and idling with no load on the system and no air being blown through the engine bay means absolutely nothing. Testing isn't worth **** if it's not done properly, and all the numbers in the world won't tell you what a human being can see, hear, and feel on track.
                      Thus for stuff like this, temperatures really don't mean squat.

                      Originally posted by voiddweller View Post
                      2. Matt - Did you go with new OEM Nissan, boneyard or aftermarket brand OEM design for your PS setup? I was only able to get 4 laps at Sebring before my original OEM Nissan cracked. The crack was right near the vertical section of tubing by the radiator.
                      originally, PS system was bone stock. I ruptured the aluminum hardline after going off track and hitting a rock the size of a grapefruit. (I'm just glad I didn't rupture the oil pan!)
                      I removed about 3" of hardline and put the system back together (luckily the rock hit near the end of the tube, so I just cut off the broken section, put it back together, refilled the system, and drove home)

                      After repairing the system, I drove the car for 3-4 months on the street and several track days exactly like this. (thus obviously no pump damage..)

                      Shortly after I installed the cage, I decided that I should have a PS cooler since all the cool kids have them and thus I needed one too.. so I used one that looks just like the Hayden pictured above. bled the system and drove around the 'hood. no problems.
                      put the car on the trailer and towed it 100 miles to the track.

                      PS failed on me 1.5 laps into the event. no idea on the specific cause of failure, but the car ran fine before I installed the cooler and it broke very shortly after with complete failure of the pump. It's entirely possible that the pump was damaged before, but given the amount of miles I put on it before the cooler was installed, I am confident the pump was in good condition when the pump was installed, and something to do with the hydraulics of the cooler/lines is what caused the pump to cavitate and fail in short order.

                      4. Everyone - Would there be a noticeable impact on the PS line temperature if I put the turbo manifold shield back on?
                      depending on the proximity of the line to the turbo manifold, maybe..
                      Originally posted by SoSideways
                      I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
                      '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
                      '96 240SX- The Track Toy

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sorry to say, but you likely killed the seals in your PS system using PS fluid. I made that mistake as well when I had to grab something quick at a parts store - rack died a little while later.

                        Running a line under the front core support is likely fine and gets enough cool flow.



                        You should most definitely be running the turbo mani heat shield for way more reasons than keeping the PS system cool!!! I suggest some header wrap on at least the front of the mani and turbo outlet if you can do it as well at the same time. Makes a huge difference in heat in the engine bay.
                        '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                        DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                        http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          [QUOTE=Matt93SE;80182]how are you going to take before/after temps with a thermometer without splicing into the lines and running two temp gauges, and having someone monitor them on track- in corners and on the straights?

                          These types of measurements taken in your driveway while the car is parked and idling with no load on the system and no air being blown through the engine bay means absolutely nothing. Testing isn't worth **** if it's not done properly, and all the numbers in the world won't tell you what a human being can see, hear, and feel on track.
                          Thus for stuff like this, temperatures really don't mean squat.
                          QUOTE]


                          There are a lot of assumptions and incorrect conclusions being made...

                          So for anyone who wants to know what effect a ps cooler (or any type) is having on their car, take a temp reading with an infrared thermometer from somewhere like where the return line goes into the reservoir right after a session on a track. Then do the same thing after you installed a cooler. then you get to see, in numeric form, what difference the cooler made.

                          matt's suggestion of gauges is great but not necessary for this "scientific experiment."
                          And, as he pointed out, idling in the driveway is pretty pointless. Perhaps I had said that is a good method of testing temps and just forgot...


                          [QUOTE=Matt93SE;80182]

                          PS failed on me 1.5 laps into the event. no idea on the specific cause of failure, but the car ran fine before I installed the cooler and it broke very shortly after with complete failure of the pump. It's entirely possible that the pump was damaged before, but given the amount of miles I put on it before the cooler was installed, I am confident the pump was in good condition when the pump was installed, and something to do with the hydraulics of the cooler/lines is what caused the pump to cavitate and fail in short order.
                          QUOTE]

                          With thousands (tens of? hundreds of?) people putting ps coolers on their cars, including 240's, and having no problems, it seems a bit of a stretch to say that there was cavitation or hydraulic flow issues that caused the death.

                          probably more likely that you didn't properly bleed the system or debris was introduced or the wrong fluid used. Or a line was kinked, or.....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jfryjfry View Post
                            There are a lot of assumptions and incorrect conclusions being made...

                            So for anyone who wants to know what effect a ps cooler (or any type) is having on their car, take a temp reading with an infrared thermometer from somewhere like where the return line goes into the reservoir right after a session on a track. Then do the same thing after you installed a cooler. then you get to see, in numeric form, what difference the cooler made.

                            matt's suggestion of gauges is great but not necessary for this "scientific experiment."
                            And, as he pointed out, idling in the driveway is pretty pointless. Perhaps I had said that is a good method of testing temps and just forgot...
                            Sorry to burst your bubble man..
                            You're neglecting the fact the power steering system will cool down enough by the time you come off track, get stopped, pop the hood, and take temps that the results are basically useless..
                            Originally posted by SoSideways
                            I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
                            '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
                            '96 240SX- The Track Toy

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              And you know this how?? I'd love to know how in the world you discovered that power steering temps in our cars drop so fast in a few minutes.

                              Maybe you're right - I, for one, have never taken temps. (I put the cooler on after seeing others boil their fluid running their cars easier than I run mine). But since you've already said you've never bothered, your statement is puzzling, at best.


                              Regardless, to the op, if your fluid is boiling, then run a cooler. just do it right: everything clean, proper fluid and bleed the system.

                              I am not aware of any other harmful effects of overheated ps fluid. perhaps there are other reasons to cool the fluid.

                              Comment

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