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Moar angle and max tire: tubs vs half tube up front?

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  • Moar angle and max tire: tubs vs half tube up front?

    Hi guys,

    My chassis is an s13.

    The front end used to be so clean and pretty...

    Then it was hit on two separate occasions in the front while parked.

    Now it's cosmetic, but she could use a bit of a nose job.

    I'm currently entertaining running 18x12 with 315's (or hopefully 335's) all around.

    I don't use this car for any particular class, so I have no worries about mods.

    It's simply an evolving project that is fun to drive, do the occasional DE, etc.

    I have never drifted, but wouldn't be opposed to messing around at a drift day.

    My focus has mainly been grip however.

    That being said, I'm trying to figure out how to stuff more tire up front and have the clearance I want at say 60-65 deg of angle (so I won't have to go back and redo it again should my build focus change).

    I'm looking at doing tubs or a half tube up front right now.

    Cost is a factor, but for ~$500 I can get tubs if the motor isn't in the car when I take it to the fabricator.

    Another fabricator seems to like to do a half tube from the shock tower down to the frame rail area and cut out the wheel well sheet metal.

    This has the downside of dirt / water / debris getting all over the bay - and how does it affect the aerodynamics of the car?

    What would you guys suggest?

    I don't have to adhere to any rules.

    My biggest concern is that I do something solid that will be stiffer and stronger than stock while giving me the clearance I need.

    Fenders can me modded to death as can front suspension, including pickup points.

    I've been following Jason M's thread and saw he got 315's to fit up front with modified shock tower openings and extending the ears on the lower shock perches.
    1990 240sx - Aristo 2JZGTE, R154, GT37, Defsport Wilwood kit, KTS coilovers - daily driver
    1991 civic si - B18C5 / toda / ATS / hytech - autox
    2001 integra type R - Greddy td05-18g - garage queen

  • #2
    Enclosing the wheel well has aero benefits. Your bay will be nasty with them open.
    '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


    DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
    http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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    • #3
      I'm not too concerned with a dirty bay, other than **** getting into my intake filter.

      But if there are aerodynamic drawbacks, then that makes the decision a bit easier.

      I wonder if there's another option whereby I could do half tube front and fill in the open areas with some kind of splash shield - similar to how the 350z come stock.
      1990 240sx - Aristo 2JZGTE, R154, GT37, Defsport Wilwood kit, KTS coilovers - daily driver
      1991 civic si - B18C5 / toda / ATS / hytech - autox
      2001 integra type R - Greddy td05-18g - garage queen

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      • #4
        Flowing air all over an engine bay causes lots of aero drag.

        Have you seen your wheel wells after a wet track day and dipping 2 off? No way I'd want that carp sprayed all over my engine bay....
        '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


        DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
        http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Def View Post
          Flowing air all over an engine bay causes lots of aero drag.

          Have you seen your wheel wells after a wet track day and dipping 2 off? No way I'd want that carp sprayed all over my engine bay....
          Carp sprayed over engine bay might be a bitch to clean up, for sure... Who wants scales and bones and such everywhere?

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          • #6
            What about the firewall side? Anyone else having issues there? Mine needed some hammering in of the metal to get the tires to clear.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Beejis60 View Post
              Carp sprayed over engine bay might be a bitch to clean up, for sure... Who wants scales and bones and such everywhere?
              Not to mention the smell!

              Originally posted by Vlad View Post
              What about the firewall side? Anyone else having issues there? Mine needed some hammering in of the metal to get the tires to clear.
              For clearance or you talking about cutting it? I've seen some drift cars with a slight cut out there with a sheet metal "box corner" to give the tire a bit more room. But I think most kids run like 17x7 -40 offset these days to not interfere with the stock body except up front.
              '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


              DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
              http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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              • #8
                To run an 18x12 up front and get 60* of angle, you're going to need to extend the control arms (probably 60mm or more) and move the strut top out to get the tire away from the chassis rail.

                To run parallel steering and a low-caster setup is going to requre a lot of cutting and clearancing everywhere, even with the extended setup, and especially if you're any kind of low.

                If you run a setup with some ackerman and caster, you'll be jacking the tires up on their edges, which might make it easier to turn those behemoths back and forth quickly, but you'll also probably be ruining a set of very expensive tires. It might also make some clearance issues easier.
                Support innovation, buy from companies that design their own parts!

                Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

                Suspension before power.

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                • #9
                  That's funny that you mention moving the strut top out - I was going to move the upper pillowballs in toward the farthest inboard point on the shock towers, and then extend the ears on the lower brackets for the coil overs.

                  Extending the flca around 2.5" sounds about right.

                  I think that's where Jason M plotted a decent camber gain under compression.

                  Cutting and boxing in the frame rails is also on the table.

                  I run about 7.5-8deg of caster and -2.5deg of negative camber up front.

                  I have a couple different wheels that I'm test fitting right now, between 9.5 and 12" wide.

                  I'm not married to any particular amount of angle nor tire and wheel combo.

                  But I do want to stuff as much tire in there as possible (within reason).

                  Having a decent amount of angle would make the car easier to sell if and when that day comes, but honestly I have more angle than I do clearance currently.

                  I've been eyeing heavily the gktech knuckles also...
                  Last edited by Black R; 11-24-2013, 07:44 AM.
                  1990 240sx - Aristo 2JZGTE, R154, GT37, Defsport Wilwood kit, KTS coilovers - daily driver
                  1991 civic si - B18C5 / toda / ATS / hytech - autox
                  2001 integra type R - Greddy td05-18g - garage queen

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You would need to extend the ears reallllyyyyyy far in order to not run -20* of camber, which would in turn change the motion ratio of the whole front suspension.
                    Support innovation, buy from companies that design their own parts!

                    Friends don't let friends buy knock-offs.

                    Suspension before power.

                    Comment

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