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  • Veterans: A Few HPDE Prep Questions

    I was down on my luck for a while and just started getting back into my 240.

    Please accept my apologies in advance if I missed the answers.

    I've been doing searches over the past 30 minutes to get ready for an early September HPDE and would like some seasoned advice on a few items.

    My S14a is a pseudo daily driver, so it has factory AC, LSD and ABS.

    Off the top of my head, here's the list of mods:
    • S13 SR20DET Blacktop
    • Rebuilt OEM T25
    • GReddy S13 FMIC
    • KWv3 Coilovers
    • Rear Subframe Spacers
    • NISMO Power Brace
    • 17x8 +30 MB Wheels w/ RE-11's
    • AEM TruBoost and UEGO
    • RS Enthalpy Dyno Tune
    • 80mm GReddy Downpipe and Test Pipe
    • 2.5" BRM Custom Catback w/Magniflow Muffler & 22" Resonator
    • Z32 MAF w/Enjuku Racing Intake & JWT Z32 Velocity Stack
    • GReddy FSTB and RSTB
    • Koyo Oversized Radiator
    • FAL Fans
    • HKS SSQV v1
    • 810cc DeatschWerks Injectors
    • S13 Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump
    • JWT Flywheel & Clutch
    • Moroso Oil Pan
    • Carbotech XP10's Front and XP8's Rear
    • Z32 Aluminum 26mm Front and Rear Calipers
    • SS Brake Lines
    • Rebuilt Z32 MBC
    • High Temp Fluids (ATE Super Blue, Synchromesh, Royal Purple)
    • Distilled Water with Water Wetter
    • Braille B2015


    It's putting down somewhere between 240-270hp at the wheels.

    **edit** Just pulled the dyno sheet and posted below. It's 241hp and 216tq.

    Here are my questions:
    1. How does the power steering respond to being capped off? Is the steering effort excessive? If so, what is a reliable braided steel system that won't break the bank? FYI - The OEM HP line exploded at Sebring.
    2. Is there an aerodynamic or cooling benefit to reinstalling the splash guards?
    3. There is a leak that seems to be by the stock shifter plate. Is it best to replace the OEM gasket or use some type of RTV?
    4. Any benefit going with slotted rotors for 20 minute sessions or just stick with generic vented blanks?
    5. The MBC seals appear to be leaking. I think it's a NAPA rebuild. Replace the entire MBC, seals or just the reservoir?
    6. What is a good alternative to the stock coolant reservoir and mounting location? I can't use the OEM overflow due to space restrictions from the velocity stack and FMIC piping.


    Thanks in advance for the suggestions and advice!

    Pics:









    Last edited by voiddweller; 03-11-2015, 12:32 AM. Reason: Spelling and tune correction. Added pics of car.
    '97 240SX - S13 SR20DET​​​​​
    '19 Camaro ZL1 1LE
    '19 Expedition Max
    Previous HPDE Cars: '17 Civic Type R, '02 Golf GTI, '99 Integra GS-R, '97 200SX SE-R, '96 240SX, '92 240SX

  • #2
    How does the power steering respond to being capped off? Is the steering effort excessive? If so, what is a reliable braided steel system that won't break the bank? FYI - The OEM HP line exploded at Sebring.

    You can buy replacement HP PS lines. I personally did not like no PS at speed. It's fine at 7-8/10ths, but extremely difficult to drive faster than that due to the high effort and slow corrections.

    Is there an aerodynamic or cooling benefit to reinstalling the splash guards?

    Best to leave them in if you can.

    There is a leak that seems to be by the stock shifter plate. Is it best to replace the OEM gasket or use some type of RTV?

    Whatever is easiest. I have mine sealed with RTV fwiw.

    Any benefit going with slotted rotors for 20 minute sessions or just stick with generic vented blanks?

    Blanks are fine. Even better are some DefSport brakes! See the Group Buy subforum

    The MBC seals appear to be leaking. I think it's a NAPA rebuild. Replace the entire MBC, seals or just the reservoir?

    The MBC reservoir seals? We had a recent thread on that. Consensus seemed to be OEM reservoir with new OEM reservoir seals.

    What is a good alternative to the stock coolant reservoir and mounting location? I can't use the OEM overflow due to space restrictions from the velocity stack and FMIC piping.

    You can stick one of those small HELP autoparts bottles over there. If you blow coolant into the overflow tank you've got cooling problems, but it's very normal on track due to our cooling setup not having an air volume to expand into (i.e. a bleed tank/surge tank/whatever you want to call it to let the coolant expand into). So coolant expands when it's hot, pops your cap, and a lot of coolant rushes out due to the pressure loss, makes a big mess. The answer isn't a higher pressure cap, but air volume for everything to expand into.
    '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


    DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
    http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

    Comment


    • #3
      I just went through the whole power steering debate on my S13 race car and finally just ran my first race (24 Hours of LeMons) after deciding to delete power steering.

      I did not cap off anything, but instead drained all fluid, disassembled the rack and removed the internal pressure piston and seal, generously greased the rack, closed off all existing ports, ripped everything power steering related off the car, and called it a day. Loosely followed this write up: http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/depower.php

      I must say I was worried about effort after doing this. And it is a little tough when you're in the paddock and moving at very slow speeds. BUT, out on the track the feedback and effort was just awesome. This was after doing a 1.5 hour stints and being one of the fastest cars out on track. All 6 team members had nothing but positive remarks to say about the steering of the car.

      Some specs of my particular car to give you an idea:
      2420 lbs with 3/4 tank of gas and no driver
      225/50/16 BFG Rivals (mounted on Z32 wheels with 10mm spacers)
      stock caster

      YMMV
      Core4 Motorsports
      CLICK HERE for Wilwood FSL6R Radial Bracket & Rear Wilwood BBK GROUP BUY
      S14 VQ AER Endurance Racing Team

      Comment


      • #4
        I had to mount my overflow in a non stock location as well because I have tubs. I did it the ghetto, but effective way: took a bottle, put a hole on the top, and put in the corner.

        Also, I think you are exaggerating your power level with a stock t25. You might be at 240, but anything much higher than that, I doubt.

        Also, ATE super blue was just discontinued, so either buy a few bottles or run something else your next flush.

        Comment


        • #5
          Ate blue is still sold by Pegasus racing and others. It just now has disclaimers that it doesn't meet dot 4 because its blue.
          Thy alsp still have the typ200, which is same as ate but yellow in color. That one is still on the market.
          Originally posted by SoSideways
          I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
          '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
          '96 240SX- The Track Toy

          Comment


          • #6
            Ate isn't even that good of a fluid IMO, and the blue stains everything. Too bad Valvoline stopped making their DOT4 fluid, as it was available everywhere and had a nice boiling point (just a hair below Ate).

            I just run RBF600 and bleed once a year - same cost, less work.


            I would also not run a T25 past about 10 psi on track, as it will be basically off the compressor map at ~5500 RPM at 14 psi and the heat will be entirely too much. You can do it for a street setup with a big intercooler, but on track is a completely different animal. 10 PSI will yield about 200-210 rwhp or so.
            '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


            DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
            http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Def View Post
              Too bad Valvoline stopped making their DOT4 fluid, as it was available everywhere and had a nice boiling point (just a hair below Ate).
              Say WHAAAT?! I been using that stuff for a decade.. Just bought some a couple months ago. When did they discontinue it?
              Originally posted by SoSideways
              I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
              '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
              '96 240SX- The Track Toy

              Comment


              • #8
                Really? I haven't been able to find it for years and years.
                '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

                Comment


                • #9
                  They changed color so the bottle is now white w/ a blue label instead of the old gold colored label. It's still like $7/qt at Vatozone.
                  http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...N-25ahZ1z140pt
                  Originally posted by SoSideways
                  I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
                  '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
                  '96 240SX- The Track Toy

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've bought my Blue from a local race shop because I never usually plan ahead for bleeding, but I decided to switch to RBF600 and have 3 new bottles waiting for me to try. From what I've seen and heard it should work very well.

                    I wouldn't doubt the yellow is still out there--and heard they had the two colors for easier bleeding.
                    97 Kouki SR 240

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      RBF600 is more than 2x the ATE stuff (blue or yellow). ATE is sold in 1L for ~$14 while RBF600 is sold in 500mL for ~$18. I still use ATE but may look into the Valvoline/Prestone cuz of availability. I need to drive ~30 minutes to buy ATE in a store.

                      Here's the Prestone equivalent of the Valvoline dot 4 stuff: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...questid=613944

                      Slightly higher dry boiling point than Valvoline
                      Last edited by gawdzilla; 08-21-2013, 08:33 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yeah, I use the Valvoline stuff and call it. With all the bmc shenanigans of late, $7/bottle works just fine. Though I ran out and only had a bit of super blue left on the shelf so had to use that a couple weeks back.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I've had good luck with ATE in the past, but I didn't know it was discontinued. $14 sounds about right. Never used the Vavoline or Prestone, but I'll check it out. A good friend is running RBF600 in his teams' Chump Car Integra and personal track car. He swears by it, but they used ATE in the past with no issues. I like the color change when switching between blue and gold because it prevents wasting good fluid, but that's just me being safe but semi-cheap.

                          The solution for the power steering is interesting. I never thought of ripping it all out. I've seen some people disconnect the power steering pump, remove the OEM cooler, fill up the rack with fluid and cap off the hose. I drove an Integra like this and it felt great. You could only tell it didn't have PS at extremely low speeds, but is was barely noticeable, unlike the S14.

                          I bolted up a bash bar in the front and was able to get the bumper back on, but the FMIC is pretty low, so it may take some creativity to get the front splash guard back in. If it makes a difference, I'll do it. The guards in the fenders should not be problem.

                          The radiator does have a high pressure cap, but I thought that slightly increasing the boiling point of the fluid was all I needed, so the air expansion aspect didn't occur to me. I'll head over to Advance or Auto Zone to see what sort of 'Help' bottles they stock. I was thinking that it should be at least 1 quart, but many are only 20oz.

                          I'll look around for a website that still sells OEM MBC reservoirs and seals. If anyone would be kind enough to make a recommendation, please reply here or PM.

                          - If I go the route of replacing the HP PS line with a braided line, what's a decent brand or are they all the same?

                          - I was thinking of Hardrace bushings to replace the worn out stock parts where possible. The car is still a DD, so full poly or aluminum seemed a bit extreme. Thoughts?

                          - Are the aluminum radiator overflow cans a bad idea? It seems many don't have a vent, and that is bothersome.

                          - My knock sensor died and I picked up a generic one on eBay. Any reason to go OEM or will this be fine?

                          Thank you all. I really appreciate your time for posting the answers. I'm getting more excited about car every day and I hope to have it finished within a couple of weeks.

                          Oh...here's a link to the RS Enthalpy dyno results from the final run. The knock sensor died, so it was disabled and boost set to 7psi.

                          Last edited by voiddweller; 08-22-2013, 09:40 AM.
                          '97 240SX - S13 SR20DET​​​​​
                          '19 Camaro ZL1 1LE
                          '19 Expedition Max
                          Previous HPDE Cars: '17 Civic Type R, '02 Golf GTI, '99 Integra GS-R, '97 200SX SE-R, '96 240SX, '92 240SX

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by gawdzilla View Post
                            RBF600 is more than 2x the ATE stuff (blue or yellow). ATE is sold in 1L for ~$14 while RBF600 is sold in 500mL for ~$18. I still use ATE but may look into the Valvoline/Prestone cuz of availability. I need to drive ~30 minutes to buy ATE in a store.

                            Here's the Prestone equivalent of the Valvoline dot 4 stuff: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...questid=613944

                            Slightly higher dry boiling point than Valvoline
                            RBF600 is harder to find locally, I picked up 3 bottles off ebay. I compared wet/dry boiling points from some places online that had a big comparison charts. I can make a stretch and forgo a couple beers/starbucks throughout the year to pay for good fluid. It'll be tough, but I can do it
                            97 Kouki SR 240

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by gawdzilla View Post
                              RBF600 is more than 2x the ATE stuff (blue or yellow). ATE is sold in 1L for ~$14 while RBF600 is sold in 500mL for ~$18. I still use ATE but may look into the Valvoline/Prestone cuz of availability. I need to drive ~30 minutes to buy ATE in a store.

                              Here's the Prestone equivalent of the Valvoline dot 4 stuff: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...questid=613944

                              Slightly higher dry boiling point than Valvoline
                              But you only have to bleed RBF600 once per year, while Ate I always felt like needed at least a few bleeds per year to "stay fresh" and not worry about boiling.

                              DO NOT USE THE PRESTONE STUFF!!! I made the mistake of running out of Valvoline during a bleed about 10 years back, and used some of the Prestone I found locally. BIG MISTAKE! I boiled it in about 2-3 very easy laps, and I almost couldn't believe I boiled it based on how slowly I was going and how quickly the pedal started dropping. It actually first started boiling half way through my first lap at any sort of speed (which was not very fast, was shaking down the S13).
                              '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                              DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                              http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

                              Comment

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