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OS Giken VS Carbonetics

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  • OS Giken VS Carbonetics

    After hearing about all the issues from Gikens lately, I'm wondering why we don't have more people trying the Carbonetics Carbon diff. I realize the Giken is tunable and therefore mostly fixable but is there a reason no one seems to be running the Carbonetics?

  • #2
    Carbonetics are rebranded ATS LSDs. I think recently they lost the contract to sell them in the US... but you can buy actual ATS units.

    A friend of mine and solo national champion runs ATS diffs in his cars and loves them, but I think with the amount of people running Gikens it'll be easier to find a fast setup.
    '89 RX-7 TurboII - SSM - Widebody - Ford 8.8 IRS - giant wing - Megasquirt3
    '89 Corolla SR5 - SMF - 4A-GE 20 Valve 6 speed swap - Megasquirt-2
    '01 Impreza 2.5RS - Rallycross Stock AWD / Daily
    '81 BMW R65

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    • #3
      I believe the carbon diffs are a little picky on their care and feeding.

      I'm pretty interested in picking up a Cusco RS personally. The coil springs providing preload vs. a cone spring/belleville washer should do like Cusco claims and greatly extend service intervals before preload falls off.
      '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


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      • #4
        Isn't the Giken very similar to the Cusco RS? IDK about grooved vs. non-grooved plate surfaces though...

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        • #5
          It's similar, except that the Giken uses a cone spring for preload force, which has a small amount of travel (i.e. small amounts of wear cause large changes in preload - as in high rate, low preload distance), whereas the Cusco RS uses the coil springs for preload. So you've got a low rate coil spring that's preloaded a much larger distance, so any wear causes a very small preload force change.
          '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


          DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
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          • #6
            Both have grooved clutch plates btw.
            '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


            DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
            http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Def View Post
              It's similar, except that the Giken uses a cone spring for preload force, which has a small amount of travel (i.e. small amounts of wear cause large changes in preload - as in high rate, low preload distance), whereas the Cusco RS uses the coil springs for preload. So you've got a low rate coil spring that's preloaded a much larger distance, so any wear causes a very small preload force change.
              The RS doesn't have inverse-pre-load springs in the collars like the giken does... which I imagine is why the giken has supposedly smother lock up.
              '89 RX-7 TurboII - SSM - Widebody - Ford 8.8 IRS - giant wing - Megasquirt3
              '89 Corolla SR5 - SMF - 4A-GE 20 Valve 6 speed swap - Megasquirt-2
              '01 Impreza 2.5RS - Rallycross Stock AWD / Daily
              '81 BMW R65

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              • #8
                True, it's all load sensitive towards lock.
                '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                • #9
                  My cusco rs has VERY agressive lockup compared to the giken at low speeds. Never used carbonetics in a rwd but they do wonders in the front of our sti road race car.

                  Zack

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wanabgts View Post
                    My cusco rs has VERY agressive lockup compared to the giken at low speeds. Never used carbonetics in a rwd but they do wonders in the front of our sti road race car.

                    Zack
                    Did you deactivate any clutches or adjust the preload at all?
                    '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                    DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
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                    • #11
                      Its box stock at the moment. Have a huge list of things to tackle before I pull it apart and see what can be done.

                      Zack

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                      • #12
                        Out of the box it's setup to be an aggressive drift differential, so it definitely needs to get toned down a bit for any usage other than that.
                        '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                        DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                        http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                        • #13
                          I wanted to check out my new Giken before putting it in and I really like the way it's built. It is simple and yet effective. The cone spring should not be any issue since the clutch packs won't be wearing much. All of the clutches and steels are steel. There is no friction material (like an engine clutch has) anywhere inside the dif.

                          I can see where the pressure ring could be installed backwards but checking it before installations is easy. The sharper angle points backwards.

                          I am running it as delivered to get a base point but the Giken people advised me to run Red Line 75-140 ns fluid for break in. The spider gears are not machined at all so there is quite a bit of wear at first so changing the fluid fairly soon is advised.

                          I considered removing one of the pressure ring springs to get sooner lock up. It would be slightly slower to lock than putting in the softest springs but decided against it after talking to the Giken people.

                          I made spacers for the ring gear bolts from 1/4" brass pipe. It was a perfect fit OD and I had a 31/64 drill for the ID which made a very tight fit all the way around.

                          First event with it is this weekend at Top Gun. I am changing my alignment a bit and going to try to run a stock rear bar so we will see if it hooks up or not.

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                          • #14
                            Top Gun was a blast. The car was transformed from the last time I ran it. I did not connect the rear bar and the car hooked up like crazy and it was very easy to control. The course had huge sweepers, which I get no practice on since we run on a runway locally. I was able to move the car in or out on them easily using only the throttle. There were some hard 90's as well which I had no wheel spin on at all. I love the diff.

                            I believe I may have a video of my fastest run. A friend put his camera on my car. I will post it if possible. I was in third for over half the 80 sec runs. What a rush. I kept forgetting to breathe and the adrenalin would have most everyone's hands shaking when they made it back to grid.

                            The diff works great. Would not change a thing in the diff right now.

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                            • #15
                              Good to hear it worked well logr. You came from a HLSD as well correct? If I recall correctly, the car has increased power as well. Currently with my HLSD, I have to wait coming out of a corner to put power down.

                              I wonder why Jason is having issues with his?
                              Chicago Region SCCA SM # 688 http://www.scca-chicago.com
                              TSSCC SM # 688 http://www.tsscc.org

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