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  • "new" 240sx question about suspension, or chassis flexibility

    Hello friends Hello Def

    I just bought a "new" 97 240sx, and I simply wish to preserve the chassis geometry. I am familiar with high mileage 240sx chassis that go on the alignment rack and you find the everything that should be NON adjustable is out of wack completely. And there seems to be nothing you can do to fix it short of replacing everything with adjustable arms.

    So how does one preserve the OEM geometry and prevent the mileage related wear and tear that tends to pull these poor cars apart?

    I was thinking Nismo power brace + front/rear strut tower brace. But there HAS to be more to it than that... What else can I do?

    ps. I wish to maintain the oem ride height, and welding on the chassis is not a viable option (today )

    thank you all for your support
    Originally posted by Def

    The reason why you want signal lines as slow as possible, is that there is actually some mass flow through the signal line, enough that the cross sectional area and "long" run can cause significant minor head losses.

  • #2
    If you are that determined, make your own weld in sfc's.


    I'm not sure what you mean though, the only time i've seen need for adjustable arms to correct things is when people lower the car so much that the factory adjustment isnt enough.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Z28ricer View Post
      If you are that determined, make your own weld in sfc's.


      I'm not sure what you mean though, the only time i've seen need for adjustable arms to correct things is when people lower the car so much that the factory adjustment isnt enough.
      does sfc's stand for "sub frame connectors" ? I have heard of this on a chevrolet camaro when I owned one. I've never heard of it applied to a 240sx before; I wasnt aware you could do such a thing. Im a suspension noob. I suppose I will research this... thanks.

      And what I mean is, simply, In the past I have owned many a 240; Now, you go to an alignment shop and they will generally not let you touch the machine. However, I have had a friend that lets me use the machine, and it is a very accurate machine. I put my cars on that thing, and NONE of them ever seem to have same specs on both sides. Its always a slight difference in camber, or in the rear, something is off; and it is something you can NOT adjust with oem components. I always ask myself, "well, if I cannot adjust the camber, how did it get out of adjustment?" I assumed it was due to mileage related "flex" or "chassis sag" that vehicle tend to do... Or so I have been told / thought.

      here is a example, or so I thought. This car has never been in an accident. this one is a 95 with 130k. (its for sale by the way)


      This was after alignment. After looking at it again in more detail I realized this car is a bad example because bad tc-rods and bad subframe bushings do not equate to chassis sag that I am describing. Oh well it was fun to post anyways. This one has not been abused and that is why I bought it. But in the past, I have had cars that were impossible to align because of strange angles.
      Last edited by Kingtal0n; 06-15-2013, 07:57 PM.
      Originally posted by Def

      The reason why you want signal lines as slow as possible, is that there is actually some mass flow through the signal line, enough that the cross sectional area and "long" run can cause significant minor head losses.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes like thirdgens, I recognized your username from tgo.

        You can do whatever you want for bracing if you dont mind welding a little bit.

        If you had an S13 i'd suggest raping a convertible for its chassis bracing, i've been planning to get all of it from one to install into my car for a while, even went to the JY and started hacking at one car but didnt have the time to get it done.

        There isnt a whole lot that isnt adjustable stock.

        But why are you opposed to replacing things with much improved AND adjustable pieces ?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Z28ricer View Post
          Yes like thirdgens, I recognized your username from tgo.

          You can do whatever you want for bracing if you dont mind welding a little bit.

          If you had an S13 i'd suggest raping a convertible for its chassis bracing, i've been planning to get all of it from one to install into my car for a while, even went to the JY and started hacking at one car but didnt have the time to get it done.

          There isnt a whole lot that isnt adjustable stock.

          But why are you opposed to replacing things with much improved AND adjustable pieces ?
          hey whats up!!! Yeah I recognize you as well! long time eh? My 240 is my new camaro, haha. Just minus 1,000 lbs


          I am opposed to adjustable arms for a few reasons.
          For starters, I own a low mileage chassis and the oem arms should serve their purpose for at least 100k or even 150k miles. No need to change around good oem components if they work just fine.
          Second, adjustable arms are... adjustable! They need upkeep, and I don't like alignments because nobody seems to know how to do it right, and the ones that do charge big money and still dont seem to care because its not their own vehicle.
          Third, adjustable arms are pricey when they are high quality. I would not put low quality on my vehicle; therefore, I am looking at $2000+ in parts to add adjustability to my... daily driver. I dont corner, I dont drift, I dont want to ruin my chassis; I dont even want to upgrade the OEM KA engine. Stock airbox and all that jazz.

          Hey, I have no problem with lowering a car and putting real components on it. But with that, comes upkeep, and I would want a real power plant to go with it. An S15 engine with a gt2871r at LEAST to get around a corner and dissapear!! Ya KNOW!!!

          Im just a poor college student though; so OEM engine and OEM suspension it is. for now.
          Originally posted by Def

          The reason why you want signal lines as slow as possible, is that there is actually some mass flow through the signal line, enough that the cross sectional area and "long" run can cause significant minor head losses.

          Comment


          • #6
            Makes sense enough then.

            Though SPC arms arent very high priced, and utilize rubber ends. Worried about alignment undoing itself ? Just tack weld things after the alignment, so long as you dont go crazy with the welds it'll be doable enough to grind the tacks down when its time for another alignment.

            Yes the arms will last, its bushings that are probably about done. With that comes the choice to buy new stock ones, or install poly, which you'll get an earful around here for even considering.

            Mileage number doesnt count for the suspension bushings because the rubber is aging no matter if you let the car sit or not, the car you posted specs for had bad tension rod bushings, common problem, you'll see it soon enough on your car even with low mileage. The other stuff not matching was alignment person being lazy not matching things side-side, seen this all too often, see green light window on screen ? DONE

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Z28ricer View Post
              Makes sense enough then.

              Though SPC arms arent very high priced, and utilize rubber ends. Worried about alignment undoing itself ? Just tack weld things after the alignment, so long as you dont go crazy with the welds it'll be doable enough to grind the tacks down when its time for another alignment.

              Yes the arms will last, its bushings that are probably about done. With that comes the choice to buy new stock ones, or install poly, which you'll get an earful around here for even considering.

              Mileage number doesnt count for the suspension bushings because the rubber is aging no matter if you let the car sit or not, the car you posted specs for had bad tension rod bushings, common problem, you'll see it soon enough on your car even with low mileage. The other stuff not matching was alignment person being lazy not matching things side-side, seen this all too often, see green light window on screen ? DONE
              I actually picked up a set of SPC arms for that car above. Not installed yet though. I am slowly just restoring that car, but I intend to sell it so only the affordable restoration mods. Actually thats nearly everything on a 240 haha. Thats one thing I love about 240s is everything is so cheap and affordable, the stock things. Like replacement carpet, door panels, seats, little rubber bushings, things like that are easy to change and cheap.

              Poly bushings, I would probably use some poly steering rack bushings, but thats about it. Subframe collars already installed in the subframe. Not much more to it than that...
              Originally posted by Def

              The reason why you want signal lines as slow as possible, is that there is actually some mass flow through the signal line, enough that the cross sectional area and "long" run can cause significant minor head losses.

              Comment


              • #8
                So here is a new idea/direction. Instead of just "preserving" the chassis from rigors of regular wear and tear, what can I do to it to keep the chassis from being damaged in the case of an accident? Say somebody nails the car head on, or from the rear, hard enough that would normally waste the frame. You know, push up the oem seam welds to the point where it was "totaled". I am guessing there would be some welding involved, what do you think it would take to turn the 240 into a tank without adding too much weight?

                Like if it got hit by a 1969 Chevelle. I know the 240 would crumble up like a wet piece of paper and the chevy would just have one small dent. How can I reverse that? Oh I think somebody is going to say tube chassis.
                Originally posted by Def

                The reason why you want signal lines as slow as possible, is that there is actually some mass flow through the signal line, enough that the cross sectional area and "long" run can cause significant minor head losses.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The point to the chassis crushing in a wreck is to absorb the energy from the collision and protect the occupants.

                  You also should do some research on how strong todays cars are in relation to yesteryears cars. You'll be surprised just how much better a modern car fares..
                  Originally posted by SoSideways
                  I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
                  '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
                  '96 240SX- The Track Toy

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Matt93SE View Post
                    The point to the chassis crushing in a wreck is to absorb the energy from the collision and protect the occupants.

                    You also should do some research on how strong todays cars are in relation to yesteryears cars. You'll be surprised just how much better a modern car fares..
                    I wrecked a 95 240sx at about 40mph into a tree and it was like an explosion went off. The car was ripped to pieces.










                    How can I prevent that?! Besides another accidents, which thankfully, has never happened since then. That was the only accident I ever had, except one time somebody hit the side of my Oldsmobile cutlass salon while I was turning but that was minor. My oldsmobile got a small dent that popped out... but the other guy's car was totaled. lol
                    Originally posted by Def

                    The reason why you want signal lines as slow as possible, is that there is actually some mass flow through the signal line, enough that the cross sectional area and "long" run can cause significant minor head losses.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This was a fun car to play with. 400 to the wheels all day



                      http://s23.photobucket.com/user/drag...e193b.mp4.html


                      Never wrecked it, I sold it to buy an S15 ...
                      Originally posted by Def

                      The reason why you want signal lines as slow as possible, is that there is actually some mass flow through the signal line, enough that the cross sectional area and "long" run can cause significant minor head losses.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You hit a tree at 40. Not even a full tube chassis would survive that..
                        By the time you built a car that could, the impact would kill the passengers instead of tear the chassis apart to absorb the energy.
                        Originally posted by SoSideways
                        I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
                        '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
                        '96 240SX- The Track Toy

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Indeed, thank your car that your neck and face are in tact.

                          These were "low speed" also, with the person that hit me doing 10 15? tops, me doing 45ish, and the phone pole that took out the pass side of the car doing 0, cars are disposable, you're trying too hard to prevent its demise when its crossing over into making sure you arent around to use it.

                          http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/f...4Z/front-1.jpg

                          http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/f...ightrear-1.jpg


                          Things you DONT want to do:

                          Build it into a tank.

                          Things you DO want:

                          New suspension arms with quality bushings, yours are on the way out, think of this as a way to prevent losing control and hitting a tree again.

                          New shocks/struts or decent coilovers, again so you dont have blown shocks be the cause of you getting into a wreck because you couldnt properly dodge that opossum trying to save your kouki bumper.

                          Maybe some brake work, again avoid that tree and maybe the lil opossum.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Bushings deflect way more than the chassis over age. The chassis doesn't really go in the plastic regime (permanent deformation) until it's tearing apart (i.e. front core support on track on an S13).

                            So, the chassis probably isn't the problem, it's more likely the bushings that have orders of magnitude more deflection.

                            Plus, you're assuming the factory builds these cars with pinpoint precision. There is a tolerance with everything you manufacture, and cars are no different. +/- 0.5 mm is probably a reasonable tolerance they used on the chassis design of the S chassis.
                            '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                            DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                            http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Just go full cage, containment seat, 6pt harness, wear a helmet with a hans device and call it as safe as feasible.

                              Comment

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