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  • Braided or hardlined fuel system

    so im at the point now to where im ready to plumb my fuel system, is there an advantage to running braided lines over aluminum tubing or the other way around.

  • #2
    Hard lines are lighter, and more resistant to damage in general. They also don't wear through everything.
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    • #3
      then hard lining it is last thing i need is for a hose to rupture on me and shoot petrol everywhere

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      • #4
        It's not that it ruptures, it's just that hose needs a lot more care taken to run it and isolate it due to the braid and the fact that it's pretty easy to damage the teflon liner. Rubber lined braided hose will weep fuel and make the car smell like raw fuel all the time.

        Use hard lines with a 37 degree AN flare. The weight penalty for stainless steel is probably pretty low, and cost is likely not bad. I'd look into it.
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        • #5
          i havent thought about stainless, everything ive been lookin at has been aluminum and what ive found in stainless has been only 3/8

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          • #6
            as soon as i get my hotside done i'm going to run stainless hardline. i also found a source of stainless bulkhead fittings with AN threads for the in-tank to outside connections. I just need to see if i can make a fuel tank cover which doesnt leak.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by tonto View Post
              as soon as i get my hotside done i'm going to run stainless hardline. i also found a source of stainless bulkhead fittings with AN threads for the in-tank to outside connections. I just need to see if i can make a fuel tank cover which doesnt leak.
              What is that source? Those would be good for when I eventually run dual in-tank fuel pumps; currently the only company that makes a hanger and tank cap for the s13 is Powertune in Aus., for $1000. No thanks.
              S12 || N13 || S13 || B16

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              • #8
                I ran stainless on the first Pikes Peak car. Other than being a pain to flare properly, it worked really well. I used 1/2" to and 3/8" return on an E85 system, and that was plenty. Find a good quality bender with plenty of leverage. And the cheap flaring tools you typically see for sale won't give you food results, at least on the 1/2". I ended up borrowing a Rigid tool from a hydraulic shop to get them finished. Also, mind the seam. It doesn't like to flatten out very well (harder) and can leak at the fitting if you don't do them properly.
                Good Luck.
                Ken Stouffer
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                1997 Nissan 240SX PPIHC Time Attack
                The Pink Car. P-2 under constuction
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by NismoPlsr View Post
                  What is that source? Those would be good for when I eventually run dual in-tank fuel pumps; currently the only company that makes a hanger and tank cap for the s13 is Powertune in Aus., for $1000. No thanks.
                  props to fmrogers for telling me to stop by and ask these guys. I think this is the right page: http://www.hoseandfittingsetc.com/pr...hts/parker-wtx

                  I stopped by and looked at them in person and was just about right. an6 on both ends is $25 and an8 is $41. they also bend tubing but i guess thats hard to ship.

                  Originally posted by kenno470 View Post
                  I ran stainless on the first Pikes Peak car. Other than being a pain to flare properly, it worked really well. I used 1/2" to and 3/8" return on an E85 system, and that was plenty.
                  you went 1/2"? let me check that out. I was thinking I would just pick one size so that all of the fittings and hoses/tubes fuel filters etc are the same and 3/8" seemed easiest.

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                  • #10
                    One thing to keep in mind is that hose size is the ID, hardline size is the OD. 3/8" hardline won't flow as much as 3/8" hose. 3/8 hardline only 0.060" bigger than the factory 8mm lines. It may not matter depending on your application, but for example a high boost E85 setup will take a lot of fuel at a high pressure. You likely don't want a bunch of pressure drop down your 12ft line, which is more work for your pump.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Epstein View Post
                      One thing to keep in mind is that hose size is the ID, hardline size is the OD. 3/8" hardline won't flow as much as 3/8" hose. 3/8 hardline only 0.060" bigger than the factory 8mm lines. It may not matter depending on your application, but for example a high boost E85 setup will take a lot of fuel at a high pressure. You likely don't want a bunch of pressure drop down your 12ft line, which is more work for your pump.
                      Except -6 hose end fittings actually have a smaller ID than say 0.035" wall 0.50" OD tube. I know -4 fittings have an ID of about 0.17", which is smaller than the typical 0.028" WT 0.25" OD tubing of that size. So the fittings constitute the majority of the pressure drop.

                      Same with fittings and hardline for higher sizes.




                      Fun little fact you pick up when you flow balance hardline, AN, and tubing systems with $250k+ of measurement equipment.
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                      • #12
                        I think it's XRP that claims their fittings have a larger ID than competitors...

                        How much larger, I cannot remember, even if they disclose that.

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                        • #13
                          yeah,

                          so the theory is each dash number is 1/16th of an inch so a -4 is 1/4 and this is supposed to represent flow area (id). I bought, measured, compared to specs and finally gave up and used -8 to and from my fuel cell, there are hard lines (aluminum) running the length of the car basically replacing the factory lines, and at both ends there is teflon lined sst braided hose to go from fuel cell to filter to A1000 pump, then from fuel rail to feed and return lines.

                          XRP has a nice chart in their catalog that gives flow rate VS pressure thru their fittings (based on series and bend radii) i used these guidelines then upsized to the next size to be extra sure I wouldn't have to do it twice, (and because i have delusions of grandeur)

                          As noted there is alot of discrepancy in the advertised sizes and the actual sizes, most -6 fittings were closer to .335 than the advertized .375...annoying but not world ending I guess...quickly brought back memories of making my own fittings for the skullworks KA oil blocks when i discovered the lack of quality in off the shelf stuff

                          all of the pump/fuel cell fittings were -10 anyway so reducer bushings were gonna be part of the equation regardless, and -6 isn't enough increase in diameter to merit the PITA of running new hardlines.
                          I am SKULLWORKS

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                          • #14
                            Al hardline? Interesting thought...
                            What sort of 'coupler' are you running to mate the hardline to the teflon softline?
                            I would think it probably needs a 37* flare like stainless? If so then that would probably answer my question...

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Beejis60 View Post
                              Al hardline? Interesting thought...
                              What sort of 'coupler' are you running to mate the hardline to the teflon softline?
                              I would think it probably needs a 37* flare like stainless? If so then that would probably answer my question...
                              You could rub a Female tube nut to a Male to male fitting, to the Female AN line



                              With that said the only way I'd run a hose from the tank to the front is using real deal hydraulic hose with a thick casing from a real shop. Parker sells pushloc stuff good to like, 500 psi that we use on the Sloppy cars without any issue. In fact the same 'fuel system' has been used on a few cars now, really resistant stuff.
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