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SR extended running at higher power??

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  • SR extended running at higher power??

    I guess the basic question I am looking to answer is; Can an SR stay cool under race conditions while making 300+ whp for 30min(or more) at a time in 80+ degree heat?

    I'm talking about no letting up on the straights, full on, 30 minutes of real road racing at 300+whp levels.

    Who has done this?

  • #2
    Aftermarket radiator and a large oil cooler and you should be set. I've been on track for probably 20+ minutes at a time with my ka-t, oil temps stayed around 220 and water temps a little under 200.

    A vented hood would also help get rid of excess heat, but 300whp is still pretty modest and I wouldn't consider a hood a necessity.


    • #3
      Def and Codyace. I've ridden along with def and hes not coasting, this in TX summer as well.
      ~1992 240SX, SR20/Koni track day car
      ~2016 M3, daily driver


      • #4
        Ive tried! After two fresh engines and a lot of money im not sure it can be done... Hopefuly someone on here can chime in.


        • #5
          What have you done to cool the engine down. A list cooling mods will help.

          Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
          Still Got a few part left! Shoot me a PM if you have questions!


          • #6
            Yes, it can be done, with a lot more than 300whp as well. Mine normalises after 5 laps at 175 unless its a seriously hot day in which case it normalises at 182 odd for the rest of the time, Ive got 30+ laps in already with it totaly normalised while datalogging the chassis



            • #7
              My experience is with a KA-T, but should be similiar enough.

              Setup([email protected], stock thermostat, no oil temp gauge) and result:

              Koyo radiator w/Altima fans
              • Would be able to get about 10 minutes of solid run time before coolant temps were climbing towards 100c and not stopping.

              Koyo/Altima fans/FC Oil cooler
              • Oil cooler improved my time on track signifigantly. Being able to do an entire 20-25 minute session without backing off. Coolant temps were steady in the mid-high 90c range.

              Koyo/FC Oil Cooler/Stock Clutch and E-Fan w/all stock shrouds
              • Best setup I have had. Coolant temps would be steady in the 85-88c range on a solid 20-25 minute session.

              Hope that helps.

              IG: l_fitzhenry


              • #8
                Toyo N/flow, ducting/sealed to it, oil cooler, vented hood

                It's not strictly a cooling issue as we are detonating too but not sure why. It is an Enthalpy tuned ecu and he says it is fine but we have killed 2 engines. 11ish afr

                175degrees on a 300hp SR on track? The thermostat isn't even open at that temp.


                • #9
                  Not to take anything away from Enthalpy, but his tunes are based upon people posting up high dyno numbers on forums. Nothing wrong with that, as that's exactly what sells, and it's exactly what people want. It's fine for 99.9% of the driving you can do with an engine too, so it's perfectly safe for the vast majority.

                  Our ECUs have crap knock control, and it's actually not enabled for the vast majority of tunes (as it should be disabled - just like factory) above the low-midrange RPM level due to knock sensors getting false positives for knock due to valvetrain/bottom end noise.

                  So... the easiest fix is to knock off about 2-3 degrees of timing at the CAS. It will feel a bit sluggish below a few psi of boost, but it'll make the engine much happier on track.

                  You on 93 octane as well? Water/meth inj is also a good move for track driving, but they can easily live without it.

                  Run Altima fans at a minimum if you're on a slower track as well, and keep them on high.

                  Also use a swirl tank that has airspace for the coolant to expand into. The stock setup is not made for the whole cooling system to get hot. It will pop the cap if you have it properly bled and run it hard on the track, even with a bigger radiator.
                  '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!

                  DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by logr View Post
                    175degrees on a 300hp SR on track? The thermostat isn't even open at that temp.
                    That would depend what thermostat and what water speed you run, took me almost a year to get my setup working right but it can be done.

                    So... the easiest fix is to knock off about 2-3 degrees of timing at the CAS.
                    The lower the timing in general the higher your coolant outlet temps are and the less power you make. You also move your injection points if the map has been setup with optimized injection timing.

                    In my opinion, if your having detonation problems with it as rich as that then either have the map properly altered to suit the usage or fit water/meth with a small nozzle just to make sure it doesnt detonate, it also helps with coolant temps by a degree or two.


                    • #11
                      I've run 20-35 minute sessions on the same Jim Wolf Technology ECU and setup for years now, literally thousands of miles, without issue. I have the OE water temp gauge in the cluster in the OE location, and an aftermarket one on the coolant outlet, and on the coolant outlet (that is, off the head) I never see above 210/215..and that's in situations where it's 90* and 100* humidity up here in PA. Now don't get me wrong, I don't run at 400whp in those situations, but I know 10/12 psi makes over 300whp, and I've never EVER had an engine issue.

                      At WOT the timing is in the 22/23 range, AFR always in the 11's under boost, and she idles and works like a new car. Can't go wrong with that!
                      'Slicks on a car show me you care - broken axles show me you're trying'
                      [I]Nitrous Rental Cars - Turbo Festivas - Vehicular Lunacy[/I]


                      • #12
                        My setup is simple
                        OEM Thermostat
                        Altima Fans (Wired one side at low speed)
                        Derale Controller (at 180* the other fan comes on high speed)
                        All plastic undertrays
                        Koyo Radiator
                        Same antifreeze/coolant we run in our big rigs.

                        Never EVER had a heating issue. I also run with the heater (defroster) on though too.

                        It may not be perfect, but it works.
                        'Slicks on a car show me you care - broken axles show me you're trying'
                        [I]Nitrous Rental Cars - Turbo Festivas - Vehicular Lunacy[/I]


                        • #13
                          Oil cooling is critical in keeping stable water temps, especially in SR’s with a lot of power running in high temperature environments, you need to have nice stable oil temps that can normalise, this isn’t an easy task, a continual use 450+hp SR can give a 19row cooler a hard time, at that stage dual 14 row’s with a secondary thermostat works pretty well and is easier to package.

                          Radiator, yes turn-flow/multi-pass etc is good, but you also don’t want very very cold inlet temps into the motor as it causes quite substantial coolant thermal cycling due to the thermostat opening then closing fast as soon as it gets into real cold water which isn’t easy to see unless you datalog the inlet and outlet temps and overlay them, easy fix is to slowly add more bleed onto the thermostat which reduces the thermal cycling to a point, best to start off with very small changes at a time, even a single 2mm bleed can make 2-3 degrees difference in the cycling, this becomes even more critical with the speed point.

                          As per Def, a swirl tank or de-aeration setup is vital when the power goes up to stop air pockets in the outlet arm. The Japs are pretty good with this, some nice idea’s can be found by looking at pics of their setups.

                          Pump speed, datalog the inlet and outlet temps of the motor, change the pump speed to get the best heat rejection possible, youll find that your cooling system will have an ideal RPM where you have the biggest rejection of heat, faster or slower and the value drops. Idea is to try get it as close to the mid point of your operating range as possible so that while racing your always close to your peak efficiency in the cooling system, as an idea, peak can be as much as 8degrees drop per pass, off peak as little as 1degree per pass

                          On the detonation comments, Datalog your car, you’ll see where it detonates and only fix that area, 99% of the time an SR will detonate as it rolls into boost once heat soaked especially with the small turbo’s you guys generally run which create quite large turbine restrictions. This area of the map isn’t really affected much on “street” and “dyno” cars that never really see prolonged periods of high load. Depending what ecu you run I wouldn’t even touch the main ignition map just use a well setup transient ignition retard that can preferably run on more than just rpm vs. map, having it increase as oil temp increases (best indication of true head soak) is the best way to do it right in my opinion.


                          • #14
                            I have no issue with the SR20VE at 440hp on track for 30 minute sessions...peak temp in cali summer is somewhere around 190*F

                            8x11 oil cooler from B&M and a greddy radiator...never swapped in the koyo because it won't overheat...

                            E85 is the best cooling mod I have ever done for the car...
                            I am SKULLWORKS


                            • #15
                              My car has DW fuel pump, 550 injectors, FPR set at 42#'s. Car runs at or below 11.1 AFR's. Greddy oil pan, oil cooler. Oil temps are 250-260 all race. Koyo N Flow radiator with dual fans and controller. Temps are 190-200 in stock location and 210-220 right out of the head. The ECU is tuned by Enthrapy. I have run 3 races and the car runs great! No hesitation or wierd things happening all race. Runs awesome! But when we get the car home it has low compression so we pull the head and its bad news. Rough pistons and also pitted block and head. I dont know what to do because it shouldnt be detonating... Im on my third engine and wondering if I should keep running this thing. Heres a video of my first novice race.