Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

spherical tie rod, yay or nay?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • spherical tie rod, yay or nay?

    I'm looking into replacing my tie rods (inner and outer) due to the boot is all busted, so dirt and water have been slowing working its way inside the joint and going to eventually mess it up.

    Well, spl got the spherical unit with the z32 inner rod for strength and gain in steering angle. But the only benefit that I can think of for my grip need is its strength. Or I can just get the moog setup for cheaper, and probably last longer since there's boot for the outer joint that keep dirt and water from ruin the joint unlike the spherical unit. I've already gotten a few suspension component that is spherical for adjust ability, but can't make my mind on the tie rods. Your opinion and experience would really be appreciated!

  • #2
    The biggest reason to get the heimed tie-rod ends is for adjustable bump-steer.

    Also, I run grease filled boots on mine, despite some people saying heims are better un-booted. My reasoning is to keep things as close to "stock" as possible. So far, it seems to work. I just took a look at a few of my heims and the grease still looked new.

    Here, you can see the spacing between the heim and the knuckle, as well as the boot.

    Comment


    • #3
      Sorry for the noob question, but you just use enough space between the joint to keep the tie rod leveled horizontally correct? A friend got the spl one and it came with several spacers.

      Comment


      • #4
        That's the idea- get it on the same plane as the LCA IIRC. Adding spacers reduces the strength of the shank though; I'll probably just run 1 or 2 of them on my SPL ends (most likely 1, as the front of my car is pretty high now).
        ~1992 240SX, SR20/Koni track day car
        ~2016 M3, daily driver

        Comment


        • #5
          The SPL tie rod ends are the only one's I'd run since they are the only design that use a high misalignment rod end.

          We use QA1's 5/8" teflon-lined chromoly high-misalignment rod end, this special rod end offers an incredible 65deg of articulation angle. This is more than stock (~50deg) and much more than other aftermarket tie rod ends (~35deg).
          The vast majority of internet stories of tie rods braking are due to improper installation or the installer over lowering and not checking clearances so that the tie rod outer joint maxes out at the extremes ends of suspension and steering travel travel common in drifting or the tie rod hitting the frame rail for the 'hella slammed' crowd.

          The SPL rods also use a second generation (revised design with chamfers on where the threads end to remove stress risers) 4130 shank for maximum strength in this highly stressed component that you do not want to fail.

          I have a set of the V3 SPL tie rod ends that have not installed. I'm waiting for the lighter V4 Duralumin turnbuckles and will probably get an Aurora high misalignment rod end since the stamped QA1 neck just looks weak (even though I'm sure it is way overrated for the application).

          I've run the QA1 and other low cost Teflon lined rod ends on TC rods and they still work with no issues (noise, slop, stiction) other than some pitting on the ball in the areas that don't get friction. This is on a daily driver in Washington where there is a lot of rain and grit on the road but no salt.

          Rod ends should be replaced annually anyways to be on the safe side.

          Here is some additional reading on how tie rod position interacts with the rest of suspension geometry:

          http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/te...t_3/index.html



          Last edited by Umai Kakudo; 06-16-2008, 04:10 PM.
          The Nerd shall inherit the podium for knowledge is power.

          Comment


          • #6
            The problem with the SPL ends is that they use sh***y 2-piece rod ends. The ends will need to be replaced regularly if you wanna keep the ends tight. I like the peak performance race tie rod ends. They are super beefy and use 3-piece ends. A high-misalignment rod end is not necessary unless you have soft springs, and probably not even then. A lowered 240 generally won't have more than a couple inches of compression travel, due to the gay macpherson strut front suspension, and will not have more than an inch of down travel. I have no personal experience with a koni/GC set-up so maybe they have more travel than an off the shelf coilover set-up.
            function > form
            1990 240sx fastback: IN PROGRESS

            Comment


            • #7
              this sounds like a noob question.. but alot of people say aftermarket tie rods will give them better steering angle.. this doesnt make any sense to me.. im probably wrong.. but if the rack is maxing out then the only way to get more steering angle is extra teeth on the rack.. aftermarket tie rods will only give u more adjustment for ur toe right?? somebody please explain this to me.. it confuses me how if u have ur toe set.. and ur rack goes lock to lock then thats all u will have.. or am i wrong?

              Comment


              • #8
                I've said it before, will say it again, how many "pieces" a rod end has DOES NOT MATTER.

                The reason the SPL QA-1 high misalignment ends are having the PTFE liners pound out(which is what causes the looseness), is likely that their bearing area is low compared to other "normal misalignment" rod ends. You reduce area, and the loading on the PTFE liner goes up so it is more susceptible to pounding out. That's the trade off for more misalignment capacity.

                I personally lean towards a stock balljoint here after seeing failures and definitely not wanting to lose steering on one side. Adjusting bumpsteer is nice though.
                '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

                Comment


                • #9
                  All 2-piece rod ends have significantly less surface contact between the bearing and the liner. A 3-piece end has more surface contact, and since the race is a separate piece it is more precise. That is why 3-piece ends are tighter to begin with and last much longer. Def you are right, but it means nothing because all 2-piece ends have a smaller amount of contact area and wear out faster. I have not seen too many failures in the tie rod ends and the ones that I have seen were because the idiot running them spaced the end down to the max. People think that spacing the end down to the max corrects the bumpsteer as much as possible when in reality it almost certainly makes the bumpsteer worse.
                  Last edited by racepar1; 06-16-2008, 09:38 PM.
                  function > form
                  1990 240sx fastback: IN PROGRESS

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm running Wicked Tuning tie rod ends. They're cheap as hell. So far, no slop, and I've put some pretty high loads on them.

                    IMO, any well lubricated and well cleaned (maintained) rod ends will work just fine.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Just as a favor to you guys, if you're going to run SPL, consult Kuah about his tightening procedure first.

                      I lost a tie rod end on my favorite mountain and it could've been a disaster. Instead, it was just mildly frustrating. The steering just got really heavy and I had to call a tow truck.

                      The rod ends wear quickly, though. Expect to be replacing them every 6 months.
                      S13
                      1:31.xxx CW/CCW SoW
                      1:04.837 CW HTM
                      ?? Chuckwalla
                      ?? BW13

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Here are the instructions from the SPL site, pretty detailed in case you have any questions about their parts: http://www.splparts.com/doc/SPLTieRodEnd/default.htm

                        Did you lose the tie rod because of improper tightening procedure? How often are you driving if they wear out every 6 months? I don't drive my car much, but if these really wear out that easily, I'll probably sell the set I got and stay stock.
                        Last edited by turtl631; 06-17-2008, 09:10 AM.
                        ~1992 240SX, SR20/Koni track day car
                        ~2016 M3, daily driver

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Does any know the differances between the SPL rod ends and Kazama? I'm currently running the Kazama inner and outers and have no issues with them.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by racepar1 View Post
                            All 2-piece rod ends have significantly less surface contact between the bearing and the liner. A 3-piece end has more surface contact, and since the race is a separate piece it is more precise. That is why 3-piece ends are tighter to begin with and last much longer. Def you are right, but it means nothing because all 2-piece ends have a smaller amount of contact area and wear out faster. I have not seen too many failures in the tie rod ends and the ones that I have seen were because the idiot running them spaced the end down to the max. People think that spacing the end down to the max corrects the bumpsteer as much as possible when in reality it almost certainly makes the bumpsteer worse.
                            I think that's a really over simplified statement to make about rod ends. I've seen some 2 piece designs that has more bearing area than many 3 piece designs. I've typically seen 3 piece designs in higher strength/less ductile shank/head materials likely due to manufacturing requirements, so maybe you're confusing load limits with bearing area of a liner. Load limits are something you don't want to even come close to in a rod end, because things will be likely to fail BEFORE the shank if you repeatedly ask the end to move while loaded anywhere close to maximum material limitations.

                            The solution isn't a more pimp rod end, but to up the size if you find yourself wearing the things out every few months in what I'd call "light" usage(i.e. you're not going balls out every time you drive the car, so why are critical components wearing out so quickly?).
                            '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                            DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                            http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Abstrak0ne View Post
                              Does any know the differances between the SPL rod ends and Kazama? I'm currently running the Kazama inner and outers and have no issues with them.
                              Kazama rod ends are likely cheaper/lower quality than the SPL stuff.
                              '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                              DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                              http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X