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Intro & Yet ANOTHER Koni/GC Question

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  • Intro & Yet ANOTHER Koni/GC Question

    Hello All!

    I've been hanging around for a while reading up and getting to recognize all the regulars here. Figured it's about time to get a post out.

    After parting ways with my '02 WRX, I've decided to jump into a build for the S13 coupe I've had sitting for ~5 years that I acquired on a whim years back.

    The goal for the car (for now) is to set it up mainly as an autocross car that will see a couple track days a year (we've got an autocross community but not many road courses in MT). I have been to a couple events and seen the likes of logr tearing it up, that car is really what convinced me to start this project. I also plan to drive the car a couple times a week on the sweet two lane highways that abound in this big sky country but it will not be a DD by any means. This year is suspension/braking, next year will be engine if I decide to take on part two. I've got a full Z32 Al brake conversion (would have loved to go Def's Wilwood route but that's $$$ that I budgeted elsewhere) and part of my 86XX/GC setup amassed in my garage. Just got the custom housings, so many thanks go to Richard for the excellent craftsmanship and really good service.

    I've now reached my first hurdle: spring rate/length. I know I won't get this perfect the first time and it will take some tweaking, but I want to at least get in the ballpark the first time. I'm not into slamming the car, just lowering it to that CG/roll center balance point. RC correction will come later, probably by Def's budget FLCA method. Tires are 225/50/16 (skinny, I know, but it doesn't take much to put down 130rwhp worth of KA24E plus I had two sets left over from the WRX). After much scouring on here I was sure I was gonna go with 500/400 lb/in 6/7" f/r but have recently come across people saying go stiffer go stiffer...so now I'm thinking more like 550/450. Also many people seem to be running 7" f & r. I'd love some info on peoples' set ups and any input you're willing to give. While you're at it I'd appreciate input on the 8610/11 split vs 8611 all around...worth it? Thanks for any and all input in advance.

    I wanted to close my first post by saying thank you to a forum of seemingly awesome people who are willing to help out others, are not into flaming, and who know what it really means to go fast. I was on an FSAE team for years, and while that is a whole other story and a sh*t show of it's own kind, I truly appreciate the intellectual level of this forum compared to others that shall not be named!

    rs13
    Last edited by rs13; 08-04-2011, 09:40 PM.

  • #2
    First off, welcome...

    Originally posted by rs13 View Post
    After much scouring on here I was sure I was gonna go with 500/400 lb/in 6/7" f/r but have recently come across people saying go stiffer go stiffer...so now I'm thinking more like 550/450.

    I'd say a combo of the 2 would be best - 550/400.


    Originally posted by rs13
    Also many people seem to be running 7" f & r. I'd love some info on peoples' set ups and any input you're willing to give.
    7" up front might limit wheel width...I have to run a 6" spring so that the lower perch is above the lip of the wheel.

    The new springs I just put on are 6" front, 8" rear - I would have gone with 7" rears, but my custom housings are...ahem...further customized, and I had room for a 8" spring at my current ride height (low as I'll ever go).

    Originally posted by rs13
    While you're at it I'd appreciate input on the 8610/11 split vs 8611 all around...worth it?
    Quoted this one just to get it noticed - I have a running thread on shock setting suggestion...and posted yesterday that one of my 8611 rears has a tiny, tiny leak, it seems. Just added there, that I might replace the rears with 8610's to save a buck, and I'm not utilizing the adjustment in the rear anyway (full soft, both compression and rebound).

    ...

    Anyway, welcome again...hope this reply helps.

    - Brian
    '96 240SX | KA-T - 320rwhp @ 12psi | ~2700lbs
    Koni 8611 & GC's - 600/450 | RPF1's - 17x9.5

    Comment


    • #3
      I run 8611 up front, 8610s in the rear - the 8610s in the rear feel great. Honestly my car seems to just stick better than a lot of other high $$$$ suspension setups out there on the track (local Exige has R888s and I think ASTs or Motons?, my car seems just as composed as his over bumps).
      '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


      DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
      http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the response and the welcome to both of you.

        The 6/7 combo does seem to be the way to go - I had noticed the added wheel clearance with the 6" in front and with the 7" in front you're really not even using the adjustability of the sleeve. With 16x8 +25 I think I'll be good for clearance.

        Noted on the staggered rates...Def, I know you run bit more of a split rate as well, is this just for a bit more compliance in the rear (less oversteer)? What are your thoughts on spring rates? I plan to run helpers in the rear as well but cannot find anything other than zero rate, anybody know where to source some like those tanabes that are like 60 lb/in??

        Interesting input on the 10s. That was my gut, but the more I thought about it, it would be ~$240 more upfront to get 11s for the rear also vs ~$600 if I decided to upgrade in the future. Both your input has pushed me back to my gut of 11/10 f/r. I've also got a Progress front sway on the way and plan to run barless in the rear for now - suggestions?

        I know I'm asking a lot here, but one more - give me an idea what's a fair price for an S15 HLSD shipped.

        Thanks again for the warm welcome,

        Reid

        Comment


        • #5
          I meant S15 HLSD with output shafts...

          Comment


          • #6
            550 shipped on eBay for the guts

            Comment


            • #7
              guts = no shafts?

              thanks

              Comment


              • #8
                Usually you get the diff and the shafts. you'll need to add your pumpkin and ring gear.
                by the time you're done, it's about $1200 to pay a shop to replace the bearings, assemble, and shim the diff.

                IMo you'd be better off spending a couple hundred more and getting a clutch type over the HLSD.

                (Can't you tell I paid way too much for a diff I hate?! )
                Originally posted by SoSideways
                I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
                '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
                '96 240SX- The Track Toy

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hate!? Wow, you might be the first person I've ever heard give a bad review of the HLSD! I understood it was pretty much the best you can get before you start touching the Carbonetics or OS Giken realm. Reasons?

                  I plan on installing myself, I've heard very mixed reviews about the difficulty of shimming but many others have done it before so I think it can probably be done again.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Matt93SE View Post
                    Usually you get the diff and the shafts. you'll need to add your pumpkin and ring gear.
                    by the time you're done, it's about $1200 to pay a shop to replace the bearings, assemble, and shim the diff.

                    IMo you'd be better off spending a couple hundred more and getting a clutch type over the HLSD.

                    (Can't you tell I paid way too much for a diff I hate?! )
                    Never had the need to shim the diff when going Nissan guts to Nissan guts(I've done it 5 times now). The machining is precise enough that you can throw it in, check the tooth engagement for shts and giggles then have at it.

                    BTW - you're still having wheelspin issues due to your crappy no-droop dampers, not due to the HLSD.
                    '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                    DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                    http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks Def, that's exactly what I wanted to hear! I think I'll do it...and avoid the slow boat.

                      While we're on the no droop subject, it'd be awesome if someone knew where to find the ever elusive helper springs...found this:

                      http://porterfield-brakes.com/produc...productID=4648

                      but at that price, for one...ouch!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I sm no professional, but i have swapped out my diff around 6-7 times with breaking housings and switching to another setup, and agree with Def, never had to shim it once, but made sure to keep all the spacers straight between swaps. Used HLSDs into S13, and S14 housings as well as open guts.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The guy that did mine needed one new shim. I don't know whether it was missing from the pile of stuff I got from mmdb, damaged during shipment/install, or just needed changed.
                          Nonetheless, it needed a shim. The shim itself was just a few bucks. The big money were the new bearings.

                          As for how I like or don't like the HLSD, my KTS suspension is pretty common so if I hate it, many others are probably going to hate it for the same reason. I see no benefit between the HLSD and my VLSD in lap times, even with my setup completely changed to make that diff work in this car.

                          So I spent a ton of money to go nowhere. sounds like a smart idea to me. would have been better off just leaving the VLSD in and saving a bit more money for a real diff.

                          but that's my experience. YMMV.
                          Originally posted by SoSideways
                          I don't care what color they are as long as they are LONG AND HARD.
                          '04 G35 Sedan 6MT- The DD
                          '96 240SX- The Track Toy

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            While assembling the Koni setup, I noticed that there's a decent amount of room between the damper and the housing on the bottom that is taken up by the gland nut at the top. Anyone wrap the damper body with electrical tape to locate the bottom of the damper a little better in the housing or just cinch it down good with the gland nut? The only downside I can imagine is tape + heat = maybe hard to remove damper in the future. Thanks for any input.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rs13 View Post
                              While assembling the Koni setup, I noticed that there's a decent amount of room between the damper and the housing on the bottom that is taken up by the gland nut at the top. Anyone wrap the damper body with electrical tape to locate the bottom of the damper a little better in the housing or just cinch it down good with the gland nut? The only downside I can imagine is tape + heat = maybe hard to remove damper in the future. Thanks for any input.
                              It's unnecessary to put anything in there to shim it. The gland nut will hold it securely, as long as it's tightened down enough.
                              Between rides...unless you count a WD21...

                              Comment

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