Converting to Solid Lifters (S14 SR20DET)

[leetfade]

Ok so there seem to be a few different options and opinions now-a-days in regards to way / need to convert to solid lifters in the SR20. I wanted to get some opinions on this forum...

First, I decided to purchase a second head and start to build it for more of a race head. I plan for it to spend some time at the machine shop, debating on cryo dip (anyone done this? Is it worth it?), then I want a head that's good over 9k RPM and good to 500+ whp. I probably won't go that high (goal is more like 450) but I don't want to be pushing the upper limits of the motor's capabilities.

I've been looking at the Tomei solid pivot lifters but I hear there are some issues with those. Is this just due to people not wanting to shim? I hear it needs reshimmed pretty regularly which is kind of annoying...

I read the BLE are just garbage and to avoid them. Then I've read about some guy that makes his own that everyone jumped on (but I don't think he makes them anymore).

Anyways, just looking for some suggestions on how to build this one up. I'm under no illusion that it will happen over night but I'm thinking I could have it done and ready to go on about this time next year.

When it's ready to go back on, the block will get treated to new pistons, rods, crank balancing, oil pan, etc, etc (i'm not that crazy! ). For now, though, I can drive the current set-up with the JWT S3s at 12psi and at least enjoy it while building the new head over time.

Your input / suggestions are appreciated!

[Matt93SE]

the big caveat with solid lifters is that you do have to continually adjust them.
the benefit is reliability.

There's a reason many of the small-bore GT engine builds spend tons of money to go to solid lifters in their engines. exactly why I can't explain since I don't have the knowledge, but it's pretty compelling evidence if you go to the track and everything putting out tons of power is running solid...

[PerilousActs]

GTiR's came from Nissan with solid lifters as well. Take a look a Trevor's pulsar one time he brings it out. So that's always an option as well, but I'm not sure how well that would work in combination with high lift aftermarket cams.

[Tower240sx]

solid lifters don't go flat so there is less chance of deflating the lifter with spring pressure and limiting lift or flinging a rocker arm.

I would suggest going to a VE head before going solid lifter, benefit is shaft mount rockers can't fly off and don't need adjustment, better flowing head also,

Sorry i have no personal SR solid pivot experiences to share

[leetfade]

But I already have a second SR head coming!!!

What negative impact do you guys see with staying HLA, running high lift cams with RAS? Considering I won't be entering into any major point events and the road racing I will be doing will be more for fun, should I just avoid the hassle and stay HLA?

Should have posted this BEFORE I bought the second head..

[greenman100]

Been dailying SLAs for 2 years now. I check clearances at each oil change - just pop the valve cover off and slide in feeler gauges. I reset tolerances about once a year, it takes 2-3 hours - measure, multiply by the rocker arm ratio, order new shims ($5/ea, but can be reused from rocker to rocker, so you don't need a full set every time) and good to go!

[leetfade]

Is it the hard driving that requires re-shimming? From what I understand, it's basically that the material of the shims gets worn down or compacted or however you want to put it, and that's why they need replaced. Is that accurate?

Reason I'm asking is that if I only really do some occasional Auto X and some occasional road race, I would think they should last a while.

[Def]

solid lifters don't go flat so there is less chance of deflating the lifter with spring pressure and limiting lift or flinging a rocker arm.

I would suggest going to a VE head before going solid lifter, benefit is shaft mount rockers can't fly off and don't need adjustment, better flowing head also,

Sorry i have no personal SR solid pivot experiences to share

+1 on the VE head. It will probably be around the same price as a nicely done solid lifter DET head, and outflow it to boot.

[Def]

But I already have a second SR head coming!!!

What negative impact do you guys see with staying HLA, running high lift cams with RAS? Considering I won't be entering into any major point events and the road racing I will be doing will be more for fun, should I just avoid the hassle and stay HLA?

Should have posted this BEFORE I bought the second head..

With just valve springs you should be able to spin HLA up to 7800-8000 RPM with a cam like an S3 or S4. I'd say that's more than enough for a decent powerband and 450 rwhp. Hell, a GTX3071R with the wick turned way up could probably do 450 rwhp.

[juggernaut]

I run HLA tomei 260/260 cams up to 8,000 rpm with shimmed up type A springs to increase seat pressure. Have rocker stoppers. Using factory variable cam timing (s15).

No problems yet but I don't sit on the limiter either.

IMO at 8,000 rpm the HLA setup becomes a bit marginal depending on how aggressive the cams are. Just make sure you have correct spring pressure if your going to stick with the HLA setup at these sort of revs.

For sustained high rpm use I would go solids for peace of mind or VE head as others have suggested.

[Def]

Keep in mind that the FWD guys spin S3's up to 8000-8300 RPM (sometimes with stock springs!). They seem to be a really gentle profile.

[leetfade]

Thanks for the input guys.

Ok so let's go a bit different route then. I have JWT S3s now. I was looking at going with something like a Tomei 270 but it sounds like that's not really needed for my goals.

Keep in mind I DO have an S14 so I have VTC, but all I keep hearing is that just isn't feasible after about 350 whp because the gear just starts breaking down regularly. My S3's aren't tapped for VTC but I could have it done (already contacted JWT before).

So if we're thinking road racing / AutoX, how would you guys build it? I'll lay out what my plan was and you guys can feel free to shoot it full of holes! My goal is 4-450 whp but solid acceleration. I'm not listing the suspension yet (but I realize how substantial of a roll that plays) as this is just about the engine build.

Head:
PnP / Valve job / Decked -- BES Racing
Supertech +1.0 mm valves
Supertech valve guides
Supertech valve seals
Tomei Solid Pivot Lifters
Tomei Procam 270/270 (Also considering Kelford but they're all staggered [Until 280/280] and Lash, JWT is always an option I just don't sell them lol)
Valve Springs / Retainers (ratio / brand tbd)
Apex'i 1.1mm Head Gasket
ARP Head Studs
Potential: Cryo Dip

Block:
Crank Balance / Cylinder Hone -- BES Racing
CP Pistons -- +1.0mm (87.0mm) 8.5:1 compression (I'm too big of a wuss for 9:1 I think)
Eagle H-Beam Rods
Greddy Oil Pan

ECU:
Apex'i Power FC

Turbo
Garrett GT3071r or Borg Warner EFR (size tbd) if they pan out.

I was planning on a 2871r when my goals were < 400 whp but they've grown and I really want to keep the turbo under 80% of max capacity. Definitely open to suggestions on all!

EDIT: Forgot to add that I am planning on Nismo 740cc injectors. Obviously will be getting a new rail, FPR and that kind of stuff. Just didn't think to add it the first time on here.

[greenman100]

Looks good. Go twinscroll if you can.

Solids require consistent checking, not consistent shimming. I think somewhere along the way, the terms got mixed up by people that probably dont own them.

[juggernaut]

Keep in mind I DO have an S14 so I have VTC, but all I keep hearing is that just isn't feasible after about 350 whp because the gear just starts breaking down regularly. My S3's aren't tapped for VTC but I could have it done (already contacted JWT before).

Yes I had my S3 cams tapped for my s15 by JWT upon purchase but never installed them and instead fitted the Tomei 260/260's.

IMO the VCT will live with the S3 cams quite well as they can run with stock spring pressures provided they are up to spec. As Def said earlier they seem to be a gentle cam hence the ability to use the stock springs.

However, its a moot point if you are going with 270/270 solids.

[leetfade]

Well that was just my original plan. It's definitely open to suggestions.

I don't think the S3s and the stock valvetrain are really solid enough for the 450whp goal, is it? Definitely not the stock valvetrain at least. I've heard 350-400 on stock internals but I'd much rather not push it.

Good through on twin scroll. I'll look into that.