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  • I'm so lost.. lol

    This forum is so over my head. I thought i knew quite a bit about suspensions.. but apprently not...

    it would be great if we had a sticky or something explaining some of the issues with certain suspension.. like the s13 subframe having anti-squat problems. i seriously want to learn all this stuff. i just dont know where to begin. I've just recently discovered good proof that "jdm" coilovers are junk. so im a little behind.. lol
    So where is a good place to start about learning suspension??

  • #2
    your not the only one. theres whole forums out there. haha

    i know enough to keep it fun. some of the guys on here you wonder why they use these old 240s.

    Most PM answers: F 17X9 +22, R 17X9 +35

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Your Mom View Post
      some of the guys on here you wonder why they use these old 240s.
      We're poor or buy houses or both.

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      • #4
        alot of other forums are corrupted with hearsay and JDM bling....which most people usually think is the way a suspension should be setup without ever actually testing and seeing what works. not even everyone on here will agree on certain setups, its the testing, adjusting, and modifying that takes place here.
        NASA HPDE Instructor

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        • #5
          im just lost as of now.. i will probably be doing a lot of thinking and researching about all this stuff.. and im not a person that just reads something and takes it for fact.. i have to kind of verify it... and if it doesnt make since.. i question it.. so i guess i just have a bunch of research to do.

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          • #6
            yeah most of us do the same but after you read some of the stuff you start to just believe everything Def or ace says.

            Most PM answers: F 17X9 +22, R 17X9 +35

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            • #7
              For a basic education on geometry and set-up refer to SCC magazine's "make it stick" articles. They're a bit dumbed down, but it you really understand the basic principals there it will give you a good base to build off of. If you really wanna learn more start buying suspension/chasis design and set-up books. They are painful to read and understand, but you can learn a lot there too. I only have a fairly comprehensive understanding of the basic and some of the advanced principals, when it gets to formulas and equations I begin to get kinda lost. We all started where you are. I hope this helps you to learn more.
              function > form
              1990 240sx fastback: IN PROGRESS

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              • #8
                How to make your car handle by Fred Puhn

                Good book to get started as well. A bit outdated but the basics still apply.

                I am also a firm believer that there is nothing wrong with keeping it simple.

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                • #9
                  I never read the Puhn book, but from things I've heard about it, it doesn't seem like it would be something I would spend money on.

                  If you want good books, Racecar Vehicle Dynamics by Milliken and Milliken is still pretty much the standard. It's very engineering based, so without an engineering background, you might get lost in some of it, but there's a lot of good info in there. I mean some of it doesn't really apply and there are better ways of looking at some of the things, but for the most part, it's a great book.

                  Another one, or set, are the Carroll Smith books. A more simplified and easier to understand look at everything, but still pretty technical.

                  And then there's a whole different, longer list of books that focus on different aspects of vehicle dynamics and some that are more general, but aren't as good as the ones I mentioned.

                  There's a lot out there and there's a lot of debate on many of the things in vehicle dynamics. Because there are different ways to achieve the same thing and a lot of independent research going on, there are lots of opinions on what is important. I mean even stuff like roll center, there are what most people think of which are the geometric roll center, but there are also the people that think force based roll centers are more representative and then there is the Maurice Olley force lines idea. They're all similar, but slightly different ways of looking at how things work. It depends on how deep you want to get, the deeper you get, the more confusing it gets and the more you start to realize that the things you thought mattered a lot don't matter as much.
                  www.tipengr.com

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Wiisass View Post
                    I never read the Puhn book, but from things I've heard about it, it doesn't seem like it would be something I would spend money on.
                    http://books.google.com/books?id=cr4...with-thumbnail

                    Definitely outdated, but I suppose the basics still apply to the complete newbs.

                    I love the pic of the VW Rabbit apparently running 20lb springs in the front since that outside wheel is at like +5 camber.

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                    • #11
                      RVD is a fabulous book.=)

                      Originally posted by Wiisass View Post
                      I never read the Puhn book, but from things I've heard about it, it doesn't seem like it would be something I would spend money on.

                      If you want good books, Racecar Vehicle Dynamics by Milliken and Milliken is still pretty much the standard. It's very engineering based, so without an engineering background, you might get lost in some of it, but there's a lot of good info in there. I mean some of it doesn't really apply and there are better ways of looking at some of the things, but for the most part, it's a great book.

                      Another one, or set, are the Carroll Smith books. A more simplified and easier to understand look at everything, but still pretty technical.

                      And then there's a whole different, longer list of books that focus on different aspects of vehicle dynamics and some that are more general, but aren't as good as the ones I mentioned.

                      There's a lot out there and there's a lot of debate on many of the things in vehicle dynamics. Because there are different ways to achieve the same thing and a lot of independent research going on, there are lots of opinions on what is important. I mean even stuff like roll center, there are what most people think of which are the geometric roll center, but there are also the people that think force based roll centers are more representative and then there is the Maurice Olley force lines idea. They're all similar, but slightly different ways of looking at how things work. It depends on how deep you want to get, the deeper you get, the more confusing it gets and the more you start to realize that the things you thought mattered a lot don't matter as much.
                      Between rides...unless you count a WD21...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I need to pick up Racecar Vehicle Dynamics sometime. It's pretty $$$ from what I gathered in undergrad, and I was always more interested in the ICE side of things so I never bothered with it.
                        '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                        DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                        http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Def View Post
                          I need to pick up Racecar Vehicle Dynamics sometime. It's pretty $$$ from what I gathered in undergrad, and I was always more interested in the ICE side of things so I never bothered with it.
                          I bought mine from amazon since it was the cheapest place and shipped quickly.
                          Between rides...unless you count a WD21...

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                          • #14
                            It's cheaper if you're an SAE Member. But SAE Membership for professionals is $100/year I think, but it does come with a free magazine which is actually pretty decent. And they sell a ton of other books of interest on everything automotive engineering related. They also bombard your mailbox with seminar announcements, book releases, updates, etc. I really want to start going to some of the seminars, but they're further away and kind of expensive, but would be a great networking/learning environment.
                            www.tipengr.com

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                            • #15
                              Well, I'm not really in the automotive field, and doubt it'd be wise to start with the looks of the domestic car industry, so I'll probably skip the SAE membership. heh

                              It would probably be neat to go to a seminar that isn't about hybrids or the other crap that seems to be so prevalent in the auto industry right now.
                              '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!


                              DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!
                              http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5902

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