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Going all out for mechanical grip...

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  • Going all out for mechanical grip...

    Yeah so I'm kind of pissed when i read/research and find out there's something better than what i just spent money on... and u feel like wth.

    I know a 240 is a 240 and not a ferrari/racecar/whatever, but hell thats why most of us get them on the cheap to make them something even better.

    I decided to this time not cheap out as i did last time when i rebuilt the car... so now im thinking to myself ill only buy the most proven/regardless of price... so i was slowly getting all the spl arms...

    I got everything for the front, and they just came out with beefier z33 inner tie rods ... but kuah told me they should be fine as they ran the same setup on their z32 and it worked, so im like okay.

    But then i thought to myself i should switch to the s14 spindles to get some extra clearance maybe and widen the track?... but then would the SPL TC rods and tie rods work with that?... what about wheel bearings/hubs cause I already had new ones less than a year ago?

    Then more importantly what pissed me off is the rear... i thought id buy all spl arms and solid subframe bushings, rebuild subframe... make it all tight and solid but then... i was reading the negative side of the s13 rear suspension (obvious as its more drift-happy than grip-happy).

    Either way I have a hicas 17 year old subframe... rusted... with a hicas stopper and worn bushings... worn tie rods i suppose its definetely not stable and the previously installed whiteline subframe inserts snapped out...

    So i already bought the spl traction rods and solid alum bushings... i was going to get the camber arms and ultimately lcas front and rear...

    I was going to get a non-hicas subframe/sandblast/powdercoat... but its hard to find as most are rotten... so someone told me get an s15 one...

    But then that makes me wonder... will the traction rods i bought work?... what parts will be interchangable?... and i can pretty much forget the subframe bushings as there will be need for offset ones... like wth

    Argh... but i guess thats all part of the game...

    I really want to spend money and make an ultimate mechanical grip setup here... not spend over and over again...

    I want to get rid of the rear hicas subframe and get the s15 one... but then what is interchangable... can i still use the traction rods i bought?... where can i get the s15 subframe and how much...
    "hexa-dodecahedron-triple-threaded-super-eleventy-way-adjustment-spec" dampers. -Def

  • #2
    well no one seems to be responding.

    Hopefully I'll post my findings soon
    "hexa-dodecahedron-triple-threaded-super-eleventy-way-adjustment-spec" dampers. -Def


    • #3
      If you cannot still use the traction rods, I'm sure you can find someone to buy them. Hell, I'd give one hundred dorruh for them.

      I probably need some toe rods though, considering the alignment shop couldn't dial in less toe-in in the rear.


      • #4
        Sorry, I was away on business :P

        The S14 spindles will work with S13 arms if you replace the ball joints, which should allow you to use your current tie rods. However, I think there's enough adjustment with the z32 arms to use them with the S14 LCA's, or better yet, aftermarket LCA's with inboard heims.

        The S13 rear subframe has lots of anti-squat. It also has a solid mounted diff which makes it translate more vibration when running solid bushings. If you can, run an S14 or S15 subframe (is the S15 a direct fit? I know the S14 requires offset bushings). The traction rods should be interchangeable across all of them (mine had a ton of adjustment, so it should work). Shortening the traction rods in any case will help dial some anti-squat out, as it pulls the spindle forward more on bump travel.

        Ultimate mechanical grip comes from:
        1. Good tires
        - Tires connect you to the road. The more they stick, the more you'll turn.

        2. Good shocks
        - Your tires only do anything if they maintain contact with the road. Dampers control the movement of the tires, which directly affects the amount of time your tires are actually loaded in contact with the road.
        - We all know how to get good shocks: Talk to Richard, or find someone who's selling Ohlins/ Motons/ Bilsteins.

        3. Proper geometry (camber/ caster/ toe)
        - Regardless of your spring or anti-roll rates, your tires need to stay flat, increasing the contact area with the road. If your camber curve allows it, you'll have as much overall grip for a stock car as you would a modified one.

        4. Proper spring/ roll rates
        - Has a lot to do with harmonics and vibration and such, along with linear algebra and all that junk, but most people think of it in terms of transient response/ control of the chassis. Either way, going to the softer side for spring rates generally results in more traction through steady state cornering.

        5. Reduced weight (suspension momentum)
        - More weight = more momentum = longer "reaction" time for your suspension. That "reaction" time is time spent not having traction.

        6. Reduced suspension bind
        - Lets your dampers do more. Bind fights movement in any direction = suck.


        • #5
          Okay after bugging Kuah at SPL quite a bit lol.. he told me for my s13 the following:

          For the s15 subframe rear setup with z32 spindle use:

          -Offset bushings -- (tougefactory as spl doesnt make them)
          -S14 LCA that they offer
          -S13 ruca or their upcoming v2 ruca
          -S14 toe rods or their v2 toe rods.
          -S13 traction rods (already have yay).
          -swaybars unsure

          For the front with s14 spindles use:
          -s14 spindles, s14 5lug hubs
          -s13 LCA with s14 balljoint or SPL PRO S13 LCA with S14 shank
          (available as special order)
          -s13 tc rod (i have)
          -tie rod outer/inner z32/z33 setup will work (i have)
          -swaybar s13

          WOOOHOO Good thing i didnt buy anything else but ill have to return or sell the spl pro aluminum solid bushings... ill need to get the touge factory offsets one... i will also need to get the s15 subframe...

          So this should give a 10mm track width increase, less anti-squat in rear and more clearance too... plus all pillowball

          Edit: these are the offset bushings but maan they are expensive:

          Last edited by a_ahmed; 01-17-2008, 10:35 AM.
          "hexa-dodecahedron-triple-threaded-super-eleventy-way-adjustment-spec" dampers. -Def


          • #6
            You could've just as easily relocated one mount on the subframe and ordered the off the shelf stuff.

            Once i get a hold of some stock arms/lca/etc I'll be making jigs to make all of that stuff as well.
            Between rides...unless you count a WD21...


            • #7
              hmm.... the offset bushings could be made pretty easily I'd think. Lathe the outside then drill press or verticle mill the offset hole.


              • #8
                Well to be honest i can not fabricate my own stuff as i do not have the tools... my dad did but he gave them away (GAH!). He used to fabricate tons of stuff... but thats my situation and yeah the bushings they should be damn easy to make but alas what can i do... and in case of the offset ones... well id need to know exact dimensions but shouldn't be really hard to make honestly... and i'm pretty good at modeling/cad/3d studio/etc... if i had a cnc machine or something heh... so will see..

                For the time being im just gathering research.

                You see what I've done during last summer was make a project outline with parts categories and lists, links, prices, bought/need to buy check offs, etc... all in tables in excel, graphically organized even pictures and comments when u hover over, etc... all calculations of purchases and future purchases... that way i keep track of everything...

                So.. this way i want to avoid double spending... i first thought that the stuff i just bought in September/November was to be a waste... but thank God it is not as per kuah's comments So this is what i managed to extract out of him
                Last edited by a_ahmed; 01-18-2008, 07:38 AM.
                "hexa-dodecahedron-triple-threaded-super-eleventy-way-adjustment-spec" dampers. -Def


                • #9
                  This is a z32 alum upright correct what do you think of it, is it in descent shape, the rust i assume is from the iron rusty hub or what? I'm buying it... so just wondering...

                  "hexa-dodecahedron-triple-threaded-super-eleventy-way-adjustment-spec" dampers. -Def


                  • #10
                    They look fine, and yes the rust is from the hub. Just clean 'em up a bit and you'll be good to go.
                    '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!

                    DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!


                    • #11
                      What an ass the guy backed out of the sale... it was going to be 45+35 (80) and he's like oh yeah they're cracked u cant use them lol...


                      Here is the pix he sent me saying there's a crack here but his camera is not good what do u think...:

                      Last edited by a_ahmed; 01-19-2008, 07:59 AM.
                      "hexa-dodecahedron-triple-threaded-super-eleventy-way-adjustment-spec" dampers. -Def


                      • #12
                        I wouldn't eff with those. The crack will propagate.


                        • #13
                          You would definitely not want to use them if they're cracked!!! Consider yourself lucky for him being honest enough to admit it. That's where the hub bolts on BTW - would not be nice to have that separate from your car...

                          Speaking of honesty in selling things online... someone just recently sold me some HKS Step1 cams that have bad rust on 3 out of 8 lobes and now won't respond...
                          '18 Chevrolet Volt - Electric fun hatch for DD duty!

                          DefSport Koni Sleeve and Spring Perch Buy!!!


                          • #14
                            ^lol that sucks...

                            Yeah well, i guess you're right, i first thought he was bsing me and just didtn wana sell.. although honestly its not worth more than 80bux hah...

                            Well he said he has a friend who has another pair.. so ill wait till tomorrow for that for him to take pix

                            The worst online experience for me has been s13 steering column metal bushings from this one company 3 weeks no response after they received email, i filed charges through paypal... they didnt respond, paypal got my money back.

                            Another thing was this one guy who kept asking for more and more money something that began as 150ish ended up 250ish or so (rear ichiba hubs)...
                            "hexa-dodecahedron-triple-threaded-super-eleventy-way-adjustment-spec" dampers. -Def


                            • #15
                              I have a guy who still owes me money for a ridiculous transaction on Z32 calipers. I'm never gonna see it, but that won't stop me from hassling him every time he signs onto AIM.

                              Ahmed, you could just try to source a full Z32 rear spindle/brake/hub assembly. I did that and it ended up being really cost-effective after selling my S14 5 lug rear hubs.
                              ~1992 240SX, SR20/Koni track day car
                              ~2016 M3, daily driver