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Increase S13 squat?

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  • Increase S13 squat?

    I know we've discussed this, that the s13 subframe has too much anti-squat. I haven't dealt with it yet. Who has? I believe racepar1 has?

    I remember it's a matter of putting inserts but where? I am confused with spl's website as there are no visuals:

    SPL subframe spacers


    Hard urethane subframe bushing spacers are used to tune anti-squat by rotating the instant center of the rear suspension through rotating the subframe or moving the subframe relative to the center of gravity:
    • For maximum squat (eg. drag racing), rotate the instant center down by installing large diameter spacers above front subframe bushings and small diameter spacers below rear subframe bushings.
    • For slightly increased squat, lower the instant center by installing spacers above all subframe bushings.
    • For slightly increased anti-squat, raise the instant center by installing spacers below all subframe bushings.
    • For maximum anti-squat (eg. drift), rotate the instant center up by installing small diameter spacers below front subframe bushing and large diameter spacers above rear subframe bushings.
    Note: These spacers cannot be used in conjunction with subframe collars.


    I believe racepar1 did this but I can't recall, anyone else? If I recall he said he had positive results in gaining rear traction/grip
    Last edited by a_ahmed; 05-07-2009, 02:58 PM.
    "hexa-dodecahedron-triple-threaded-super-eleventy-way-adjustment-spec" dampers. -Def

  • #2
    To slightly reduce anti-squat you put the spacers on top of all 4 subframe bushings.

    For maximum squat you put the spacers only on top of the front bushings.

    For maximum anti-squat you put the spacers on top of the rear bushings only.

    Basically you are tilting the subframe to adjust the anti-squat. As far as I know those spacers only work if you have solid bushings though. The s-14 subframe already has MUCH less anti-squat and that is what I plan to use. As a general guide look at the position of the RLCA pivot points. The front pivot point is much higher on the s-13 subframe then the s-14. That basically re-directs the force making the suspension squat thereby allowing less squat. As of yet I have done nothing to correct the anti-squat on my car, but the s-14 subframe is in the works.
    function > form
    1990 240sx fastback: IN PROGRESS

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    • #3
      Yeah I have solid bushings...

      I don't know my brain is sleeping, I'm at work/tired.

      So basically:

      Spacers installed on all four points in-between subframe and chassis = slightly reduce antisquat

      Spacers only installed on the front of subframe in-between subframe and and car = maximum squat.

      Vice versa of above installed on back = maximum anti-squat but i dont care about this one.

      Any adverse side effects doing this? Affecting other aspects of geometry etc...?

      So essentially gotta drop the subframe to do this... pop it in, bolt it up and go.

      Anyone with experience done this? I always thought you've done it. Positive/negative feedback etc...

      I hope these don't snap. When I installed whiteline subframe inserts (when i had blown bushings) they eventually snapped out and the subframe had like 1"+ of movement lmao.
      "hexa-dodecahedron-triple-threaded-super-eleventy-way-adjustment-spec" dampers. -Def

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      • #4
        I put the S14 subframe in my S13 and the difference at autocross is amazing. It's obviously more of an issue at autocross because of the lower speeds and the amount of torque to the rear wheels in 2nd gear vs. higher gears on track. I removed my rear swaybar for our last event and it's just crazy how well it "hooks up" coming out of the corners!

        If you're having troubles keeping your solid bushings in place, you can buy or make some "fender washers" to capture them in place. Basically you'd need washers that are slightly larger diameter than the bushings to lock them into the subframe. You can then stack as many spacers above the front mounts as you want and still be able to get a nut on to secure it. It won't come close to the S14 subframe but it will be an improvement.
        Don Johnson (really!)
        Just so you know.

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        • #5
          hey thanks for the advice and info.

          Now that you mention it, what did you use to fit the s14 subframe? Reason I'm asking is because like the s15 subframe it needs offset bushings right?

          Did you just use stock rubber bushings, stretched them for width difference and filled with polyurethane to make it tight or something? I have spl solid bushings but im guessing i can't even pop them out much less install them to install the s14 subframe.
          "hexa-dodecahedron-triple-threaded-super-eleventy-way-adjustment-spec" dampers. -Def

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          • #6
            i have those spacers although they are not installed. i ordered them from PDM racing and when i talked to him he said that those WEREN'T able to be used with solid bushings so i ordered the inserts instead.
            But for when i go to install these i want to go for as little anti-squat as possible? i.e. more squat?

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            • #7
              maybe you didn't order the same thing? Maybe it was something like the inserts to eliminate stock bushing slop?

              I actually ordered the whiteline stuff from pdm-racing, I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing. I had them installed bellow the subframe (not in between subframe and chassis) and it did tighten up the subframe, no slop... however eventually it snapped and then it was clunk clunk city.

              Having gone solid is AWESOME... however differential resonance noise is anoying as hell between 2500 to 3000rpm or so lol... not all the time but it's there. The other clunk comes from the dif engaging and disengaging.
              "hexa-dodecahedron-triple-threaded-super-eleventy-way-adjustment-spec" dampers. -Def

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              • #8
                Yeah I just went on SPL's page and re-read their description of the pineapple collars.

                They say you cannot use them with subframe collars.

                So either you put them on the stock bushings or put them on solid bushings.
                http://sosideways.wordpress.com/

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by a_ahmed View Post
                  hey thanks for the advice and info.

                  Now that you mention it, what did you use to fit the s14 subframe? Reason I'm asking is because like the s15 subframe it needs offset bushings right?

                  Did you just use stock rubber bushings, stretched them for width difference and filled with polyurethane to make it tight or something? I have spl solid bushings but im guessing i can't even pop them out much less install them to install the s14 subframe.
                  I just put a little grease on them and shoved! I used some urethane locking collars and they deformed enough to fit and still hold everything in place. Someone does make offset solid aluminum bushings to fit the S14 subframe into the S13 but I don't think it's necessary and mine doesn't buzz like yours either

                  http://www.flickr.com/photos/2900348...7606405591031/
                  Don Johnson (really!)
                  Just so you know.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SoSideways View Post
                    Yeah I just went on SPL's page and re-read their description of the pineapple collars.

                    They say you cannot use them with subframe collars.

                    So either you put them on the stock bushings or put them on solid bushings.
                    That's what it was. my bad on that one

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                    • #11
                      just get an S14 subframe

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